Spoilers ST Lower Decks - Starships and Technology Season Three Discussion

[Mark_Nguyen]

We already saw the Cerritos fire torpedoes from those dorsal launchers in “Wei Duj” last year. Still hoping for aft launchers ti be reblvealed some day, though…

Mark

 

[Mike McDevitt]

-If the Strawberry Pie Eatin’ contest last year was held on the same day, (July 1, 2380) the lower decks may have been extra jittery and/or in the throes of their “sugary
diarrhea” during “Temporal Edict” (July 2, 2380) which actually tracks. Tracks like a 2364 “say no to drugs” story and a 2381 check in 17 years later.

-Speaking of 2364, is the tube in the corner of Taskmaster Freeman’s ready room a water shower like the one on Oberth-Class Tsilkovsky from “The Naked Now”? Could also be a closet or just the wall shape to accommodate the aft starboard turbolift? I have no idea what the dimensions are, I barely realized the ready room was on the starboard side of the bridge.

-Was Mariner making pies with her feet?

-Lt Dorff of SB 80 (which smells like sweat and garbage) has a rolodex & a Pyrithian Bat problem & a Type 15 shuttlepod on its last nacelles & commbadges circa 2364 & one-size-fits-some yellow jumpsuits with lost sammiches inside.

-I love this show so, so much.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

- The reporter's tech seems a tad anachronistic. Lapel microphones aside (and not all the crew wear being interviewed with them), the dronecam also seems to feature a mechanical iris shutter, which makes little sense in the digital age. Maybe it's part of some newfangled holo imaging system that requires different light levels for some reason?

- It's great that the otherwise-incomprehensible Breen have a handy "point business end this way" arrow on their breaching thingy. But why breach at all? The energy dampener weapon took out the shields, they should be able to beam in easily enough. Perhaps there is some other purpose to boarding with this thing, as Breen apparently don't take prisoners (despite evidence to the contrary?).

- Cerritos fires her aft phasers for the first time on the show, I believe. Thankfully there IS a phaser strip on the aft dorsal side.

- I'm guessing the awesome new Texas-class starship doesn't survive the AI purges to come.

Mark

 

[Mike McDevitt]

- The reporter's tech seems a tad anachronistic. Lapel microphones aside (and not all the crew wear being interviewed with them), the dronecam also seems to feature a mechanical iris shutter, which makes little sense in the digital age. Maybe it's part of some newfangled holo imaging system that requires different light levels for some reason?

- It's great that the otherwise-incomprehensible Breen have a handy "point business end this way" arrow on their breaching thingy. But why breach at all? The energy dampener weapon took out the shields, they should be able to beam in easily enough. Perhaps there is some other purpose to boarding with this thing, as Breen apparently don't take prisoners (despite evidence to the contrary?).

Mark

Mayhaps an archaic camera fetishist who also uses (hopefully) archaic gotcha journalism? It puts me in mind of discussions I saw on twitter about the chunky holo imagers on Voyager.

Shax in particular is an old friend of Kira, whose DS9 friends had previously been Breen prisoners, including Ziyal for many years in a Breen prison camp. Potentially the Breen are known to have gotten more ruthless/desperate since the war?

 

[fireproof78]

I'm guessing the awesome new Texas-class starship doesn't survive the AI purges to come.

Wouldn't a ships AI be different than the synths and positronic brains?

 

[Markonian]

Wouldn't a ships AI be different than the synths and positronic brains?

All synths.
All banned.

 

[fireproof78]

All synths.
All banned.

Ships AI = SYNTH?

 

[Markonian]

Ships AI = SYNTH?

Synthetic lifeform, artificial intelligence, Photonic (sapient hologram) - I'd guess that the Federation placed an insta-ban on any inorganic intelligence within their borders. I mentioned elsewhere, I could imagine Starfleet officers going from door to door on every world, using specialized phasers to exterminate any synthetic being on sight. The Zhat Vash's stupid little pawns.

 

[fireproof78]

Synthetic lifeform, artificial intelligence, Photonic (sapient hologram) - I'd guess that the Federation placed an insta-ban on any inorganic intelligence within their borders. I mentioned elsewhere, I could imagine Starfleet officers going from door to door on every world, using specialized phasers to exterminate any synthetic being on sight. The Zhat Vash's stupid little pawns.

That's an assumption.

 

[Deks]

Wouldn't a ships AI be different than the synths and positronic brains?

In all likelihood they are.
The vessel in question could easily be run by adaptive algorithms to execute commands in line with SF rules and regulation (and heavily insulated to protect from outside breaches/hacking).. but not 'true AI'.
Today, AI CAN be used to describe a wider range of software, but in Trek, there seems to be a distinction where the designation of 'AI' would mean a self aware synthetic lifeform (but not say adaptive algorithms by themselves).

Synthetic lifeform, artificial intelligence, Photonic (sapient hologram) - I'd guess that the Federation placed an insta-ban on any inorganic intelligence within their borders. I mentioned elsewhere, I could imagine Starfleet officers going from door to door on every world, using specialized phasers to exterminate any synthetic being on sight. The Zhat Vash's stupid little pawns.

And yet, Rios used what are effectively sentient holograms onboard his ship inside UFP space... holograms are AI too, just in a different form.
No. The AI ban likely extended mainly to AI's inside cybernetic bodies such as say androids who have greater degree of 'freedom' than your regular holos.
The Doctor's holomatrix was adaptive by default and programmed to adjust/learn but he was still a hologram. It was kinda inevitable that he would effectively develop sentience from that alone... but he's not an android... and was declared a person a long time before the AI ban was in place (its possible some exceptions would have been in place for Data had he survived and the EMH).

And he already proved his loyalty to SF and the UFP at large. And I doubt the rest of the VOY crew would have allowed for his program to be terminated under the AI ban.
If there was an 'AI purge' (which I doubt), the simplest thing would have been to just take those synthetic lifeforms offline without destroying the underlying technology in which their software resides. That way, you don't 'murder' a sentien AI (bad or not)... you just put it into stasis.

Regular holograms by themeselves aren't adaptive. Some, such as the ones RIOS used likely had limited self-awareness in the sense that they are holos, but otherwise, they didn't seem particularly 'adaptive' in behavioral aspect like the doctor... some had adaptiveness in terms of fighting styles... but if they lack the same for their behavioral subroutines, then they couldn't really develop sentience.

 

[blssdwlf]

Is it an AI ban or a ban on anything based on positronic brains as derived from Data/Soong's tech?

 

[Markonian]

What gives the indication that Rios’ holograms were sentient? They appear to just follow their programming, not have hobbies or do something exceptional. Holograms don’t automatically develop sentience by being run long enough. It was always stressed that the Doctor was special and irreplaceable.

Separating between holograms and androids when all synths are banned seems arbitrary.

 

[fireproof78]

but in Trek, there seems to be a distinction where the designation of 'AI' would mean a self aware synthetic lifeform (but not say adaptive algorithms by themselves).

Which is why I think the term "synth" is the distinction for the ban.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

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[Deks]

What gives the indication that Rios’ holograms were sentient? They appear to just follow their programming, not have hobbies or do something exceptional. Holograms don’t automatically develop sentience by being run long enough. It was always stressed that the Doctor was special and irreplaceable.

Separating between holograms and androids when all synths are banned seems arbitrary.

Actually, the EMH mark 1 as we saw nearly degraded for having too many things in his memory buffer. Superimposing the diagnostic matrix into his program managed to correct the problem... and I think this may have been another turning point for the Doctor on his road to sentience.

As for Rios holos being sentient... I did mention 'limited sentience' on the sole premise that they knew they were holos and essentially personality copies/pieces of the original.
Basing a bunch of holos off your own personality is bound to produce some interesting effects.. but I suspect they had limited or no adaptibility like the EMH.

It would be no different compared to when Geordi created a hologram replica of Leah Brams. She had limited awareness and knew she was a holo... but not fully sentient.
I wonder if she might have developed full sentience over time though.

 

[kirk55555]

Considering the fact that a Galaxy Class computer was apparently capable of creating a fully sentient hologram based off a misunderstanding of a request on the holodeck, I don't think creating sentient holograms is actually that difficult, at least in some situations. It should be nearly impossible, but Moriarty really throws a wrench in things.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

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[mithril]

I spent the whole episode trying to figure out what the Dove reminded me of. It could be the Lady Luck from Star Wars, or the Gemenon Traveler from Battlestar Galactica, but I feel like there's something else that's closer.

General shape is rather like the Federation Police Ships from the Star Fleet Universe games.
https://www.shapeways.com/product/F...utter-masterson-we?optionId=66492330&li=shops

The Dove is quite a bit larger though and has some major detail differences.

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Interesting they named it the texas class, as it has visual similarities to a SFU class of the same name, aka the 'old light cruiser'
https://www.shapeways.com/product/8...-light-cruiser-wem?optionId=65562174&li=shops

 

[Boo-khat!]

I’m not really seeing the visual similarities. I don’t think SFB was their inspiration. The ship looks more like the Nova class.

 

[matthunter]

Considering the fact that a Galaxy Class computer was apparently capable of creating a fully sentient hologram based off a misunderstanding of a request on the holodeck, I don't think creating sentient holograms is actually that difficult, at least in some situations. It should be nearly impossible, but Moriarty really throws a wrench in things.

It IS possible the E-D holodeck was a bit superior to other ships. The Bynar enhancements that created Minuet might be gone, but the potential could still be there.