Spoilers ST Lower Decks - Starships and Technology Season Three Discussion

[Vale]

I cracked up about how much the ship has changed with Boimler's line, "It's just, after all these retrofits, a lot of this stuff isn't even labeled." Probably explains how the ship increased in size

I'm reminded of an episode of Red Dwarf that stated that due to the negative space time wedgies encountered in the previous episode the Starbug's interior was now over 200% larger than its exterior...

 

[Markonian]

Apologies if this is going to far, but I'd like to point out a few ships from non-canon Lower Decks works:
* Catullan scout from IDW Lower Decks #1 comic.
* Type-9 shuttlecraft with blast shield, Enterprise-C (Ambassador prototype/Narendra class) and Enterprise-J from the mobile game The Badgey Directive.
.

 

[thribs]

The Lower Decks comic is out now? Cool

 

[publiusr]

Apologies if this is going to far, but I'd like to point out a few ships from non-canon Lower Decks works:
* Catullan scout from IDW Lower Decks #1 comic.
* Type-9 shuttlecraft with blast shield, Enterprise-C (Ambassador prototype/Narendra class) and Enterprise-J from the mobile game The Badgey Directive.
.View attachment 30129 View attachment 30130 View attachment 30131

One looks like a Tholian conversion

 

[blssdwlf]

One looks like a Tholian conversion

Yeah, the left one looks like it was designed by the Tholians or a starship builder that liked Tholian shapes (like the Aurora).

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

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[Mark_Nguyen]

Funny how Rutherford mentioned that the DF had pop out impulse engines, which were seen exactly once on the DF II, but his imagination whipped up the original one, complete with the complete lack of joysticks.

And before I forget again, regarding the longevity of some real-life ships, I’ll post here of the Russian salvage ship Kommuna, which holds the record for longest service active naval vessel in the world at 109 years since she was launched..!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_salvage_ship_Kommuna

Mark

 

[publiusr]

And still looks futuristic, as catamarans do…despite being around for centuries.

Good for Sea Dragon rockets I bet.

 

[Deks]

Funny how Rutherford mentioned that the DF had pop out impulse engines, which were seen exactly once on the DF II, but his imagination whipped up the original one, complete with the complete lack of joysticks.

And before I forget again, regarding the longevity of some real-life ships, I’ll post here of the Russian salvage ship Kommuna, which holds the record for longest service active naval vessel in the world at 109 years since she was launched..!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_salvage_ship_Kommuna

Mark

The popup engines were 'the new impulse thrusters' as seen on the DF II yes.
Impulse and thrusters are two different things... but I'm guessing that in addition to having standard thrusters, I suppose Tom Paris and the others may have decided to add/design thrusters based on impulse engine technology to the DF II.

Both versions of the DF had joysticks and Captain Proton 'addons'... it seems though that Rutherford simply made the DF II without the joysticks.

Although, I recall that DF II no longer featured Borg inspired weapons... or at least, the DF I in 'Extreme Risk' used Borg like charges to fight off the Malon shuttle... the DF II didn't even have a mention of Borg inspired weaponry... although that doesn't mean it wasn't succeffully 'merged' with SF baseline weapons.

 

[Ronald Held]

Could Rutherford's memory of DFs be selective?

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I think so. The DFII had the awkward looking twin joysticks, and the first one had more of a game controller arrangement with panels, but it was still something the pilot could hold onto. The popup thrusters on the DFII were modeled on hull features seen in the first Flyer, which IIRC were actually meant to be the escape pods - though they were never seen used or deployed on screen (one launched offscreen in "Good Shepherd") on the original ship, so in practice they may have ALWAYS been popup thrusters, and they were "newer" or more improved versions on the DFII...

Mark

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

On to 3x06 with some initial impressions!

- DEEP SPACE NINE!!! Looking just like we left it, on the inside and out. And at 33+ years old by this point since it was built, one of the longest-lived hero spacecraft in Star Trek without getting a major external refit somewhere in between!

- Scale problems aside, I think this is the first time we see two large ships share the upper pylons like this, since the second season episode "Sanctuary". Per the DS9 Tech Manual, the original idea behind the three pylons was that one would be in use at any given time to offload ore, while another one processed the ore just dropped off from the previous cycle, and the third was undergoing maintenance before accepting the next load. This means nothing for simple docking and cargo operations, but I always wondered if there was more than meets the eye as to the reasons we don't see more than one ship docked up or down there in most times.

- Freeman is bent out of shape because she's got center seat for the Karemma negotiations is odd, since the LAST time the Vancouver was involved, Captain Nguyen just disappeared and Freeman took over the politicking (AND apparent command of the Vancouver) without a skip. I guess the Vancouver crew was able to convince Admiral Goodbuddy that the 'Ritos was up to the task?

[Aside - YAY, finally! A Vietnamese person! AND Captain in the Trek canon with MY LAST NAME! And not just a fan and treknews.net writer!]

- The original Quark's has sacrificed some of its square footage for a gift shop. Unless he somehow made up for it with further upstairs or sideways expansion? The bar seemed a happening joint whenever we saw it this week, and to have only one dabo table seems a missed opportunity.

- Morn! But we can't help but wonder if he's a hologram. Or for that matter, if ALL the Quarks locations have a Morn. Or if Morn's an actor in a suit to add additional ambiance, like Disneyland.

- Our Orion ensign Mesk gets a "religious exemption" to wear his doodad (suckers). I guess we're drawing parallels here to Worf's baldric here, or Bajoran earrings or Kayshon's sash and dagger? And how DOES this apply to what is effectively a sonic screwdriver and a tool whose equivalent is in any good engineer's kit?

- Mesk wears an FC uniform (as seen in this show anyway) but with an LDS-style combadge. I'll have to check to see if the other DS9 Starfleeters are wearing this style as well or if they have the kind that the other FC uniforms in this show have. Mind you, with last week's show contextualzing a LOT of the odd uniform choices we've seen over the years, it could be a local variation anyway.

-- @Mike McDevitt points out that there aren't any Starfleet personnel in Ops. Futhermore, their uniforms are exactly as we left them too, including Kira's last version. There's even a guy with Odo's unique collar.

- But they did have their own orangey transporter effects! The Karemma get their own too.

 

[NCC-73515]

- Mesk wears an FC uniform (as seen in this show anyway) but with an LDS-style combadge. I'll have to check to see if the other DS9 Starfleeters are wearing this style as well or if they have the kind that the other FC uniforms in this show have. Mind you, with last week's show contextualzing a LOT of the odd uniform choices we've seen over the years, it could be a local variation anyway.

And the Admiral wears a FC uniform, but only one rankpin.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

We was wearing the same single pin in 3x01 too, so it seems to be a thing. We know from PIC that there are Admiral's uniforms with single pins as well, even if Picard himself had dual bars. Adding Admiral Papa Janeway's single bar uniform into the mix, we can conclude that... uh, stuff.

And I take back what I said about the Bajoran uniforms. Departmental colors aside, except for Kira they are all of the same pattern, with a thick belt and high collar, all akin to Odo's uniform of that cut; some however may have a skirt/skant. It's practically refreshing given how many variations of those uniforms were seen over seven years.

Mark

 

[matthunter]

So, whoever is doing the TV Tropes recap for this ep keeps referring to the Karemman device as an EMP, but I doubt that could be the case - starships encounter much more powerful forces than a device like that could put out (plus it didn't disable small equipment like Mariner's phaser). My guess would be some form of computer override, since it lodged in a console. Thoughts?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

So, whoever is doing the TV Tropes recap for this ep keeps referring to the Karemman device as an EMP, but I doubt that could be the case - starships encounter much more powerful forces than a device like that could put out (plus it didn't disable small equipment like Mariner's phaser). My guess would be some form of computer override, since it lodged in a console. Thoughts?

But the ship usually has the EMP shielding on the outside of the vessel protecting it from external threats, not on the inside.

Even when Captain Janeway used a EMP on the "Druoda Warhead" once it had it's casing opened up to be disabled, the circuitry was momentarily affected by it.

So I'd say EMP is a fair assessment. And the animation looked like an EMP.

The bigger issue was that the EMP caused a cascading Computer System failure across the DS9 & the attached StarFleet vessel.

The fact that there wasn't as much Computer System isolation internally is a bigger issue along with more fault tolerance if one subsystem goes down, the rest of the ship's computer systems doesn't go down with it. That made DS9 & the USS Cerritos a sitting duck for FAR too long.

It also took them 5 minutes, 4 seconds to reboot the entire computer system, get everything logged in and running, before they were able to fire the Tractor beam to grab the Karemma Ship.

5 minutes, 4 seconds is a LONG time in a (combat/emergency/crisis situations) to get your Ship/Facility/Base up and going.

Luckily nobody was hurt in this incident, only Quark's profits from stealing Karemma Replicator tech and using it without approval. This is a "HARSH" learning lesson for StarFleet. Just like how the USS Enterprise-D was lost to the security vulnerability planted in Geordi's VISOR to show the Dura's Sisters the shield frequency modulation of the Enterprise-D.

Attacks from the inside are VERY powerful if you aren't prepared for them.

 

[blssdwlf]

So, whoever is doing the TV Tropes recap for this ep keeps referring to the Karemman device as an EMP, but I doubt that could be the case - starships encounter much more powerful forces than a device like that could put out (plus it didn't disable small equipment like Mariner's phaser). My guess would be some form of computer override, since it lodged in a console. Thoughts?

Yeah it definitely was not an EMP, or at least one that had a volume effect and only surged the circuits connected to it. Everything connected to DS9 shutdown but the Dabo dealer's flashlight worked and as you point out Mariner's phaser (and tricorder) still worked. Kira's commbadge had power but got no response from I'm guessing DS9's comms. Kira thought it triggered a manual shutdown. On the Cerritos, Mariner found the door's "manual latch was fused" so maybe the device power surged the interconnected circuits and most of the systems shutdown to protect itself and reset while other systems burnt out or fused like door locks?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yeah it definitely was not an EMP, or at least one that had a volume effect and only surged the circuits connected to it. Everything connected to DS9 shutdown but the Dabo dealer's flashlight worked and as you point out Mariner's phaser (and tricorder) still worked. Kira's commbadge had power but got no response from I'm guessing DS9's comms. Kira thought it triggered a manual shutdown. On the Cerritos, Mariner found the door's "manual latch was fused" so maybe the device power surged the interconnected circuits and most of the systems shutdown to protect itself and reset while other systems burnt out or fused like door locks?

It wasn't a large EMP, but the fact that it triggered a "Safety Shutdown" that caused the rest of the StarFleet connected computer systems to shut down is a larger issue in the way they design the Computer Network.

That's a HUGE potential security vulnerability that StarFleet needs to address on a larger basis.

They just got VERY LUCKY this time.

 

[blssdwlf]

It wasn't a large EMP, but the fact that it triggered a "Safety Shutdown" that caused the rest of the StarFleet connected computer systems to shut down is a larger issue in the way they design the Computer Network.

That's a HUGE potential security vulnerability that StarFleet needs to address on a larger basis.

They just got VERY LUCKY this time.

Yeah - you'd think they had some kind of earlier shutoff so only the closest systems shutdown to protect the systems behind it. Hopefully this Karemman overload device requires physical contact to the computer system and can't work thru shields or external hull contact.

 

[matthunter]

Another point - the Karemman ship was obviously protected from whatever it was the device did, but must have also been able to selectively shield SOME of DS9's components, otherwise how did they get the docking latches to release? There's no sign they blasted their way clear, the trade minister just orders "release docking and set a course for the wormhole" and we see the ship move away with the usual puffs of gas from the pylon.