Firm believer in just #1 and that also he's "tasted all their wares" before, and not interested in doing it again.
Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 3x01 - "Grounded"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Firm believer in just #1 and that also he's "tasted all their wares" before, and not interested in doing it again.
A decent opening. Hell, given in Seasons 1/2 the first episode was arguably the worst of each season, if that's the case here then Season 3 will be incredible. A great continuation of Mariner's character arc with real feeling, and some nice deep cuts in Trek lore.
That said, it wasn't perfect. I can forgive the way that Freeman was exonerated off-camera because in retrospect it totally makes sense, both in terms of how the show subverts expectations and because...realistically lower deckers shouldn't be able to do this. The lack of actual funny humor however was a bigger issue. At least for me the episode was clever and "cute" but it wasn't actively amusing.
That said, it wasn't perfect. I can forgive the way that Freeman was exonerated off-camera because in retrospect it totally makes sense, both in terms of how the show subverts expectations and because...realistically lower deckers shouldn't be able to do this. The lack of actual funny humor however was a bigger issue. At least for me the episode was clever and "cute" but it wasn't actively amusing.
Being a comedy has nothing to do with it. Michael Burnham is a Mary Sue as well.
And do you really think her parents covering for her will make her stop her antics in the future? No.
I know exactly what a Mary Sue is, thank you.
...And despite all that, I liked the episode.
I don't think you do.
But I'm sure you know that from the very first time the term was coined it was used a misogynistic dismissal of female characters in fiction, right?
You're welcome to think whatever you want.
The etymology of the term has nothing to do with anything. Mariner could be a guy and the way the character is written, they'd still deserve the moniker. A Mary Sue can do no wrong; their ends justify their means; and all other characters serve to reinforce that notion.
You're correct about one thing; this isn't for this thread.
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A
Amaris
Guest
I started tearing up at the First Contact music.
10/10
Would tear up again.
10/10
Would tear up again.
You'd have to ask the people who created the character.
I thought this wasn't for this thread?
I would think that Boimler would have standards in the women he's interested in.
Boimler is hyper competent and intelligent. He'd want somebody on a similar level.
Not somebody who is "Hired Help" who picks grapes in his vineyard.
Or people who need hand holding to do their job are not of interest.
I think Boimler just gets singularly focused. He has a job to do and will do that. If he were not doing the job maybe there would be interest but if not then no.
Black and white thinking at play perhaps.
I think Boimler just gets singularly focused. He has a job to do and will do that. If he were not doing the job maybe there would be interest but if not then no.
Black and white thinking at play perhaps.
But Mariner is massively flawed? She's constantly called out on her behaviour by Freeman, Boimler etc. She should be a bridge officer by now as far as her Mother is concerned, but she's content to be Queen of the Dipshits instead. She's certainly capable, but her career is a dumpster-fire despite her being well connected with the upper reaches of Starfleet. She's not a Mary-Sue.
Burnham is absolutely not a Mary-Sue.
Exactly how I felt.
I'm still feeling it didn't quite land for me, but reading the thread maybe that's because I haven't seen First Contact in about 15 years.
I liked Ketracel White Hot. I got that one. And I got the 'Samaritan Snare' bit.
Looking forward to next week.
"The Statue" looks nice. 
Just the fact that her parents help to cover up her behavior is the enabling factor which exactly makes her a Mary Sue.
I'm tired of talking about this. I'm fine just talking about the episode now.
I think it is the fact that her behavior lacks any long term consequences. That she is abrasive and has a rebellious nature with no real consequences can rub the wrong way because in the real world such behaviors would not be rewarded with the career she has, which is one she basically enjoys having so no real punishment since, as you say, she is content being herself and where she is at in her career.
I agree that she is not a Mary Sue, largely because she does not appear to be an author insert and has dramatic flaws and causes problems, especially for Boimler. But, I think the use of the term has far stretched the original meaning for a character who suffers no meaningful consequences. Though, to my mind, Kirk hits that bell too so maybe that's not accurate either... *thoughtful face*
I mean, I think that's alright because lightly-serialised comedy as a rule doesn't tend to play with long-term consequences?
I just finished up watching all of Brooklyn 99 today. There's a whole bunch of irresponsible, careless, borderline criminal cops who do what they want, blow shit up and make holy-assed mistakes only to brush them all under the carpet for more japery next week. Underneath all that are some light character threads that intertwine through selected episodes, but at it's heart the show is first and foremost a comedy.
Lower Decks is the same kind of thing, but it's Star Trek flavour instead of Cop Flavour. There's a reason Jake Peralta doesn't spend whole episodes being reprimanded and filling in reports miserably and that's that it's not funny. Lower Decks takes place in it's own heightened reality and Mariner's general character fits into that world perfectly.
It's been an issue since first seen in DS9, but since Sisko's showed up again, I need to point out that the sign violates pretty much every rule about signs in the Vieux Carre.
Self-illuminated
too big (25 square feet max for that frontage)
projects above the first floor past the balcony floor.
flat mounted
Even if Sisko's is located on Bourbon between Canal and St. Ann, only neon is allowed for self illumination, and all other sign rules still apply.
Self-illuminated
too big (25 square feet max for that frontage)
projects above the first floor past the balcony floor.
flat mounted
Even if Sisko's is located on Bourbon between Canal and St. Ann, only neon is allowed for self illumination, and all other sign rules still apply.
I get your point, but this is the 24th century.
I agree. When I look at Lower Decks the first thing that springs to my mind is Brooklyn 99. The squad is consistently irresponsible, insubordinate, fails to follow procedures, engage in vandalism, or takes on roles outside their chain of command. In short, it's ridiculous. And it's hilarious. Never mind in the real world the sheer amount of paperwork that they would be doing on the regular.
I personally love Mariner and enjoy her character. I wouldn't want her in my job but last I checked Star Trek wasn't to represent my reality.
@fireproof78
Mariner is definitely the Jake of the show. Gifted but massively irresponsible.
By the end of Brooklyn 99, Jake has managed to completely turn things around, growing up whilst still retaining his essence.
I do suspect that by the end of LDS, Mariner will go through a similar growth process.
Mariner is definitely the Jake of the show. Gifted but massively irresponsible.
By the end of Brooklyn 99, Jake has managed to completely turn things around, growing up whilst still retaining his essence.
I do suspect that by the end of LDS, Mariner will go through a similar growth process.
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