STSNW's episodic storytelling or STD and STP's Serialized Seasons

[ichab]

I have plenty of issues with Picard and Discovery, but it hardly seems fair to compare them to one of the franchise's all time high points. A Fistful of Datas is no Wrath of Khan either, but it's a fun enough episode and I enjoy it. Plus: Prodigy and Lower Decks have also been released in the past 5 years, and they're great. Short Treks were often fun as well.

Comparing any movie to a T.V series is ridiculous as they are two completely different forms of entertainment. Comparing TOS to any of its spinoffs would be more fair, though even that would get tricky in this new era of T.V where we only get 10 episodes in a season compared to 27.

 

[fireproof78]

Comparison is a fool's errand, more often than not, because too many things are different from era they where made, to influences of culture and demands of the production. New shows will not capture old feelings.

If you like it, then just like it. Don't justify it.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Well it looks like people really like SNW. Pretty much most fans seem to agree. Episodic may be the way to go from now on.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Strange New Worlds definitely proves that episodic can still work, but I wouldn't say it proves that it's the only thing that works.

 

[Sci]

We've got so many Star Trek shows in production that I don't see why there needs to be a competition.

I'd love to see a highly-serialized show a la DIS or PIC, a highly episodic show like SNW or LD, and a show that blends the two a la DS9.

 

[Gary Bitchell]

If the stories are good, I don't care about the format. There have been serialized stories in Trek I don't care for, and there have been episodic ones I don't care for.

 

[Dar70]

Strange New Worlds definitely proves that episodic can still work, but I wouldn't say it proves that it's the only thing that works.

Well it's not. But 10 hour plus episode seem to have the worst track record.
I think episodic, two/ three parters or overall arc (Ala DS9) which have stand alones and an overall theme. All those types seem to work best.
A 10 plus straight story with little location change or story advancement doesnt seem to suit Trek very well. Either that or the current writers just plain suck at it...

 

[fireproof78]

If the stories are good, I don't care about the format. There have been serialized stories in Trek I don't care for, and there have been episodic ones I don't care for.

Exactly. And even with serialized that I don't enjoy I still find pearls of enjoyment. Compared to episodic seasons which will cause me to throw up my hands because the characters such or suffer little consequence.

 

[Mudd]

SNW is doing it exactly right.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Exactly. And even with serialized that I don't enjoy I still find pearls of enjoyment. Compared to episodic seasons which will cause me to throw up my hands because the characters such or suffer little consequence.

Day to day real life we don't suffer consequences on every thing we do. Modern serials they put the characters through the ringer that becomes unrealistic. Real life is more static. Not every adventure or experience we have we carry with us through every day forever. Most times we move on.

 

[fireproof78]

Day to day real life we don't suffer consequences on every thing we do. Modern serials they put the characters through the ringer that becomes unrealistic. Real life is more static. Not every adventure or experience we have we carry with us through every day forever. Most times we move on.

It's at least acknowledged, which episodic rarely does. It's just "shrug, move on." No thanks. Give me an indication that this harrowing ringer actually meant something to you. Otherwise, don't bother.

Day to day life consequences are consequences in the impact upon my relationships. They may not be big but they are there. They impact mood, the mind, and reactions for next time. Yes, there are consequences, whether people recognize them or not (and people rarely do recognize them. They'd rather avoid them and move on and ignore it, rather than reflect).

 

[TRON JA307020]

It's at least acknowledged, which episodic rarely does. It's just "shrug, move on." No thanks. Give me an indication that this harrowing ringer actually meant something to you. Otherwise, don't bother.

Day to day life consequences are consequences in the impact upon my relationships. They may not be big but they are there. They impact mood, the mind, and reactions for next time. Yes, there are consequences, whether people recognize them or not (and people rarely do recognize them. They'd rather avoid them and move on and ignore it, rather than reflect).

Every episode you can't have a consequence that affects the next. It's unrealistic to have writers do that for every one. The consequences would pile up. Acknowledging a few is more realistic. TNG did that and the show was excellent.

 

[fireproof78]

Every episode you can't have a consequence that affects the next. It's unrealistic to have writers do that for every one. The consequences would pipe up. Acknowledging a few is more realistic. TNG did that and the show was excellent.

TNG didn't do it well enough for my money.

Every episode can absolutely have a consequence, even if it is just emotional impact upon the character. It doesn't have to be long lingering consequences, but just a moment of reflection. People don't just bounce back form everything you know. Not like TNG or VOY did. I'm not saying long monologues but just quiet moments of characters being informed by their experience. Like some humans do, at least, in my experience.

 

[Mudd]

It's at least acknowledged, which episodic rarely does.

That's not a big deal. These are stories. The best series in American TV history have been mainly episodic, and that includes skiffy stuff - The Twilight Zone has never been equaled for the variety and power of its fantasy stories, and that's because it was an anthology format.

SNW carries character experience and consequence forward from story to story very well. The most infuriating thing about Trek has been a succession of showrunners and writing staffs over the last several decades who have made character arcs and metastories look excruciatingly hard to do - good people make it look like it's so easy for them that you just watch in delight as it unfolds. SNW seems to have good people.

 

[fireproof78]

So what?

SNW carries character experience and consequence forward from story to story very well. The most infuriating thing about Trek has been a succession of showrunners and writing staffs over the last several decades who have made character arcs and metastories look excruciatingly hard to do - good people make it look like it's so easy for them that you just watch in delight as it unfolds. SNW seems to have good people.

I was commenting on my preference to serialized. If episodic does it well, which SNW seems to be doing thus far, more power to it. The person I was replying too insisted TNG did it great, which I don't buy in to, hence my comment.

 

[Mr Awe]

I love serialized series. That's my overall preference . . . when it's done well. Unfortunately, Star Trek hasn't done it well since DS9. Disco and Picard have been somewhat of a letdown in terms of serialized storytelling. Disco has gotten worse at it as time has gone on. Serialized storytelling places extra constraints and creative demands on the writers, and they just don't seem up to the task.

The latest season of Picard and the past two of Discovery both had a good several opening and closing episodes but fell flat in the middle. Just not enough storytelling oomph to sustain a full season of serialized stories.

SNW has exceled this year because it doesn't have those extra demands of being serialized. Stick with that. It's working. And they have serialized the character arcs, which is working well for them. SNW, keep doing what you're doing!

 

[Mr Awe]

They've managed to put a lot of character into a 45/50 minute show and have a good story so far.

I have to say, each SNW episode feels very full. Lots of stuff going on and generally a satisfying conclusion. And they've worked in some great character arcs. You really can't ask for more!

 

[fireproof78]

I have to say, each SNW episode feels very full. Lots of stuff going on and generally a satisfying conclusion. And they've worked in some great character arcs. You really can't ask for more!

Which is why I welcome the 10 episodes. Keep the audience wanting more, instead of overstaying your welcome.

 

[Mr Awe]

Deep Space Nine peppered the Dominion arc but still had stand alone episodes built in. It was a masterful production and writing really. It did it much better than STD or STP by far in my opinion.

Oh my, yes! There's really no comparison. DS9 had a masterful mix of episodic and serialized that worked so well together.

 

[Mr Awe]

That's not a problem with serialisation then, that's a problem with trying to spread a three-episode story over a ten-episode season.

Right. Serialization isn't inherently good or bad. Some of it depends on the nature of the series itself. And some depends on the writers.

Hence, serialization worked well for DS9 and ENT in the 4th season, but not so well for Disco and Picard.

Modern Trek writers seem better at writing episodic series. They just haven't figured it out how to effectively serialize an ongoing story. But that doesn't mean it's impossible for modern Trek. They just haven't done it yet.