They've managed to put a lot of character into a 45/50 minute show and have a good story so far.
STSNW's episodic storytelling or STD and STP's Serialized Seasons
- Thread starter TRON JA307020
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They've managed to put a lot of character into a 45/50 minute show and have a good story so far.
The one thing I've always felt would make a great, 10-episode serialized arc of Trek is doing a deep dive into a first contact scenario with a new alien civilization, from initial observation through its logical conclusion. The ship and crew would spend the whole season dealing with that one planet and culture.
It would take some serious imagination and good script-writing to make it work, though. They would do best to bring in someone like Andy Weir to tackle the science of the new alien species and their culture based on their physiology, etc, like what he did in his 'Hail Mary' novel with Rocky's species from Tau Ceti. It would also be a chance to inject some hard science into Trek.
It's one of those things where it would either be absolutely epic or it would fall flat on its face and everyone would hate it.
It would take some serious imagination and good script-writing to make it work, though. They would do best to bring in someone like Andy Weir to tackle the science of the new alien species and their culture based on their physiology, etc, like what he did in his 'Hail Mary' novel with Rocky's species from Tau Ceti. It would also be a chance to inject some hard science into Trek.
It's one of those things where it would either be absolutely epic or it would fall flat on its face and everyone would hate it.
It would probably fall flat. It would have to be spectacular writing to do 10 eps. Maybe a 2 or 3 parter. Or maybe if they show what happens a starship makes first contact. You know who they send to set things up.
I liked the serialised plots for S1 of Picard and S4 for DSCO, but PIC's S2 storyline kinda got run into the ground, while most of S1/2/3 for DSCO have a looming threat but have enough mini-arcs and epispdic stories that kept things fresh enough (with SNW sounding like a refinement of DSCO's experiments).
So far STD and SNW don't seem to be much alike at all. So far we haven't gotten a overall arc. STD always had a overall arc. SNW has had three distinct episodes so far with some character arcs and that's about it.
You can say a lot about DSCO's Season 1 but it didn't really have a very strong story arc, kinda meanders with Burnham and the spore drive, with the Klingon crusade being white noise (then we went off with a weird tangent with the Terrans).
And we had the pretty good "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" that would certainly work in the roster of SNW by the sounds of things.
Yeah if Pic and Dusc would have been episodic they might have been better. I think a lot of today's writers run out of ideas so they figure a one story serialized show is easier to write. The problem is it begins to feel like a soap opera with tons of filler.
What I actually like the most is:
Episodic Trek where the episodes are connected.
A perfect example would be ENT: "Minefield" and "Dead Stop". In "Minefield the Enterprise gut damaged by, well, a mine & was about the immediate threat of blowing up. It has a clear & solid ending with the mine being disarmed. And then "Dead Stop" starts with them urgently in search for a place to get repaired, because their ship is still a wreck. Similar, season 3 of ENT were dozens of episodes connected for a larger arc. But every single episode told their own, complete & finished story within that arc.
I'm not a fan of the "Game of Thrones"- "chapter" model in Star Trek - that works great for adaptions of books, comics or other finished work. But if you have to make it up on the fly (like DIS &. PIC) pacing becomes an issue and, well, if the main arc doesn't turn out good, the whole thing kind of falls apart.
DS9 style was good - their longest arcs went for 6 episodes (out of 25 per season). That's a good length to avoid filler. Everything else was (sometimes) connected singular episodes.
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I'm definitely in favour of treating character stuff completely connected & serialised though.
Episodic Trek where the episodes are connected.
A perfect example would be ENT: "Minefield" and "Dead Stop". In "Minefield the Enterprise gut damaged by, well, a mine & was about the immediate threat of blowing up. It has a clear & solid ending with the mine being disarmed. And then "Dead Stop" starts with them urgently in search for a place to get repaired, because their ship is still a wreck. Similar, season 3 of ENT were dozens of episodes connected for a larger arc. But every single episode told their own, complete & finished story within that arc.
I'm not a fan of the "Game of Thrones"- "chapter" model in Star Trek - that works great for adaptions of books, comics or other finished work. But if you have to make it up on the fly (like DIS &. PIC) pacing becomes an issue and, well, if the main arc doesn't turn out good, the whole thing kind of falls apart.
DS9 style was good - their longest arcs went for 6 episodes (out of 25 per season). That's a good length to avoid filler. Everything else was (sometimes) connected singular episodes.
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I'm definitely in favour of treating character stuff completely connected & serialised though.
Similarly, I always loved this idea, but as max. 3 - 5 connected episodes. 1st about meeting another ship in space & making first communication. Then 2nd getting invited to their homeworld (& discovering a dark secret/cultural conflict which needs be resolved). Then 3rd suddenly others (Klingons, Romulans) having an interest in that planet as well for their resources & political navigation, and maybe 4th/5th about them actually starting the process to join the Federation. And then a season later having an episode that starts with the Enterprise transporting stuff to an outpost of that species.
Again - each of them being a single episode with a single story, a clear conclusion and finished character arcs. And also not 10 episodes in a row to avoid filler & overstay the welcome of people who don't enjoy this specific story. But also - several connected stories that work together as a larger arc & connected through a common theme.
(Also allows for a lot of reuse of alien make-up, sets & cgi assets, so that more money & quality could get put in each of those)
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I like that idea.
That's my preference. I was spoiled in the 90s by a lot of sci-fi shows that did this and made the strict episodic style more apparent and less appealing. Especially now where I tend to binge two or three episodes at a time.
I just watched minefield and dead stop. Lol. They are great episodes. The effects are as good or better as anything we get today. I think STE is gaining more respect these days.
Both. Have as many things in the wheelhouse as possible.
This is my attitude. It all comes down to how well it is written. A crappy episodic show stinks just as bad as a serialized one. DS9 worked because it was a show that took place on a station and had a great writing staff that knew how to write interesting characters and interweave storylines across multiple episodes. The only downside to that format is if you hated the dominion war then your interest in the show would wane because they would be stuck on that war for the entire season. I loved it of course
I think for this show the intent is to go back to the classic Trek story structure and so far it seems to be working. I like tuning in and not knowing what this week's story will be about. I'm very curious to see how long this writing staff can keep bringing something fresh before pulling out the two and three part stories.
The Kurtzman folks would have to learn how to write arcs first.
If DSC was more episodic, then it would basically just be SNW with a different cast and setting. See also: TNG, VOY, ENT.
No thank you. I'd rather they do everything they can to keep these series distinct and unique in format and approach from each other as possible. Or, just sunset DSC and let SNW play out as the new flagship. But...DON'T try to turn DSC into episodic Star Trek. That's when 90's burnout will creep in and repeat itself.
And that's no fun.
No thank you. I'd rather they do everything they can to keep these series distinct and unique in format and approach from each other as possible. Or, just sunset DSC and let SNW play out as the new flagship. But...DON'T try to turn DSC into episodic Star Trek. That's when 90's burnout will creep in and repeat itself.
And that's no fun.
Discovery S3 is very episodic, compared to Season 2. Yes, it has an ongoing season arc and narrative but each episode is fairly self-contained.
I was thinking about this more over the last few weeks since Strange New Worlds premiered. Yes, I absolutely love that it's doing episodic storytelling. I feel a show plays better for rewatching them if it's done in an episodic format. For context, I've rewatched Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks several times. I just like having a complete episode with a beginning, middle, and end. It's especially better if you just want to watch a random episode, too.
What I've noticed is that Discovery and Picard do episodic seasons with each being an entirely different story. But I think they are just sloppily done. It's almost insulting.
In a way, I wish one of these shows took a LOST approach where the SERIES is the arc and not the season. We know that was one of the original intents of Discovery, but, since the showrunner shakeups over the first three seasons, it feels like it's just been juryrigged countless times in an effort to show Michael's "journey" when that journey, IMO, was fulfilled with her becoming a captain.
That should've been how the series ended, I think. Michael is just the captain now and the show seems to be trying to tell the story about how Michael now has to "own" that captaincy. She has to learn how to do it. Now maybe I just have a different idea in mind of what a captain should be, but, Michael is a captain who completely commands by intuition. She seems to just have a feeling or know something and uses that as her case to Starfleet. Almost everything is on faith.
I can't tell you how far back my eyes rolled into my head when she pleaded her case to the Federation president about the detour to that planet before making first contact with 10C. "I know we'll find something down there to help us."
Discovery and Picard follow the exact same structure. The only difference is the cast and where the shows are set, but, they structure their seasons exactly the same way. And this recent season of both shows, IMO, failed in almost the exact same way as well as the stories falling apart at nearly the same point. Each show has their own feel, but, I think Discovery and Picard are nearly identical.
Forgive my somewhat disjointed post. I feel like various part of these belong in different threads.
What I've noticed is that Discovery and Picard do episodic seasons with each being an entirely different story. But I think they are just sloppily done. It's almost insulting.
In a way, I wish one of these shows took a LOST approach where the SERIES is the arc and not the season. We know that was one of the original intents of Discovery, but, since the showrunner shakeups over the first three seasons, it feels like it's just been juryrigged countless times in an effort to show Michael's "journey" when that journey, IMO, was fulfilled with her becoming a captain.
That should've been how the series ended, I think. Michael is just the captain now and the show seems to be trying to tell the story about how Michael now has to "own" that captaincy. She has to learn how to do it. Now maybe I just have a different idea in mind of what a captain should be, but, Michael is a captain who completely commands by intuition. She seems to just have a feeling or know something and uses that as her case to Starfleet. Almost everything is on faith.
I can't tell you how far back my eyes rolled into my head when she pleaded her case to the Federation president about the detour to that planet before making first contact with 10C. "I know we'll find something down there to help us."
Discovery and Picard follow the exact same structure. The only difference is the cast and where the shows are set, but, they structure their seasons exactly the same way. And this recent season of both shows, IMO, failed in almost the exact same way as well as the stories falling apart at nearly the same point. Each show has their own feel, but, I think Discovery and Picard are nearly identical.
Forgive my somewhat disjointed post. I feel like various part of these belong in different threads.
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