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Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x09 - "All Those Who Wander"

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  • Total voters
    224
You have been insulting and combative from your first and in every reply.
Again, telling you that the suit is very unlikely to even go forward is not an insult, nor is a suggestion to take fiction less seriously. You're being needlessly and inexplicably defensive.

I would have gladly discussed every point I made and we could have shared our thoughts in a friendly and perhaps mutually persuasive manner. You know, like what the boards are supposed to be about. Instead we got this back and forth.
You had several opportunities to discuss either your points or mine but you played the wounded pride instead as soon as you were challenged.

Anywho, I'm out.
Suit yourself. Don't calm down. It's repugnant. Revolting. Unacceptable. The waters are rising. The barbarians are at the gates. The apocalypse is here. The beast has awakened. Kill your wives and children lest they be ravaged by the enemy; and then run for your lives and find a dark hole to cower into!
 
The Chapel/Spock thing is kind of obvious from my perspective. T'Pring looks down on humans. Chapel is a human. Spock is going to be as Vulcan-like as possible to impress T'Pring. Hanging around Chapel means her "human-ness" rubbing off on Spock and thus, from Spock's point of view, lessening his chances with T'Pring. So Spock cuts Chapel off in hopes T'Pring will accept him, leading to the situation in TOS.

The irony is that T'Pring was never going to accept Spock as long as Stonn was around. Spock cuts off whatever he might have had with Chapel in SNW (and possibly Leila Kalomi in the next season or so) for nothing. That's the tragedy.
How do you know T"Pring was never going to accept Spock? Agree about Spock's motives. He doesn't despise Christine. He is committed to the Vulcan way of life. He is going to find that Vulcan is way more complicated than he ever knew. Vulcans are NOT at heart logical. Logic is a veneer they assume. Otherwise they would be like Data.
 
Unless it's reinstatement to full cast member it still looks like a demotion. The news that Hemmer was always intended to die doesn't make this whole situation appear any better. It's like the show wanted to showcase their diversity by seemingly having a main cast disabled actor, only to reveal they never intended to accomodate him for the long run.

Time-line glitch that erases his death!
 
Again, telling you that the suit is very unlikely to even go forward is not an insult, nor is a suggestion to take fiction less seriously. You're being needlessly and inexplicably defensive.


You had several opportunities to discuss either your points or mine but you played the wounded pride instead as soon as you were challenged.


Suit yourself. Don't calm down. It's repugnant. Revolting. Unacceptable. The waters are rising. The barbarians are at the gates. The apocalypse is here. The beast has awakened. Kill your wives and children lest they be ravaged by the enemy; and then run for your lives and find a dark hole to cower into!
Yeah, you like hearing yourself speak. Ta-ta

EDIT:
Belz, Arpy, DROP IT!
Dropped.
 
Ouch. Very unoriginal, stealing a lot from the Alien and the Predator franchises (even the sounds are similar). Also, killing off Hemmer so soon is a real pity.

7 only because the production value was really good.
 
Well, it was good while it lasted...


La'an was pointless as a Noonien Singh, which made making her one problematic. Kirk & Co. look bad.

Whoever owns the Xenomorphs needs to sue the fuck out them. Newt, too. That ain't homage. It's theft...

No one owns those ideas in any meaningful sense. O'Bannion heavily mined the story "The Black Destroyer" for his script premise and specifics of the monster, as well as the film It! The Terror From Beyond Space, so he'd have no leg to stand on in claiming that he created the story or creature. Arguably, both Van Vogt and the folks who made It! could have sued him, though.

Aliens? Well, Cameron likely has no taste for plagiarism suits, given that he's frequently been sued for stealing other people's ideas and has come out on the short end of a couple of those (while others have rightly been dismissed as nuisance suits).

Given the number of films that have borrowed specific tropes, scenes and designs from the Alien movies in the last forty-odd years, the Trek people would not be high on the list of potential defendants from the POV of any competent IP lawer.

The point of the TOS Gorn were that they looked menacing and they'd acted viciously, but they were intelligent spacefaring beings who had been wronged. These things were straight-up monsters from an 80's horror movie. It's like we learned nothing about not judging a book by its cover, people by how they look.

You're wrong about the meaning of that story. Kirk was entirely justified in judging the Gorn not by "how they looked" but by their savage and criminal actions. What he had to face, at last, was that the barbarism of the enemy didn't justify his violating civilized norms in turn. The only way in which the Gorn had been wronged was in an act of trespass into their territory; in return, they'd slaughtered civilians and children and lured the Enterprise into an ambush intended to destroy it. None of that was in dispute, and there was no intimation of acceptance of mutual responsibility between Kirk and the Gorn captain.

In fact, the Metron tells Kirk directly that the Gorn would have destroyed him had their roles been reversed.

Well, of course he would have - the Gorn were awful.

So, with the encouragement of people like Roddenberry, fandom has turned "Arena" - lifted without permission (but with eventual payment) from the award-winning short story "Arena" by Fredric Brown, though the Trek people always insisted that it was all an incredible coincidence - into a bedtime story and humanist parable suitable for Gene's Vision and the image that they hold of what Star Trek ought to stand for. But that doesn't make the kindhearted reading the only, or even the most likely, interpretation.

Yeah, case dismissed.
 
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How do you know T"Pring was never going to accept Spock? Agree about Spock's motives. He doesn't despise Christine. He is committed to the Vulcan way of life. He is going to find that Vulcan is way more complicated than he ever knew. Vulcans are NOT at heart logical. Logic is a veneer they assume. Otherwise they would be like Data.
Yes. This T'Pring seems to be trying to find value in his human-self (even if it's mostly sexual). ;) She's appears to be making an effort (and I personally read that effort as sincere, at least so far). He's the one who doesn't want to embrace the human apparently - for a number of justifiable reasons, I imagine.
 
No one owns those ideas in any meaningful sense. O'Bannion heavily mined the story "The Black Destroyer" for his script premise and specifics of the monster, as well as the film It! The Terror From Beyond Space, so he'd have no leg to stand on in claiming that he created the story or creature. Arguably, both Van Vogt and the folks who made It! could have sued him, though.

Aliens? Well, Cameron likely has no taste for plagiarism suits, given that he's frequently been sued for stealing other people's ideas and has come out on the short end of a couple of those (others have been dismissed as nuisance suits).

Given the number of films that have borrowed specific tropes, scenes and designs from the Alien movies in the last forty-odd years, the Trek people would not be high on the list of potential defendants from the POV of any competent IP lawer.
He should do it anyway. Make it expensive for them to steal instead of coming up with their own work. Which producer was saying recently how they thought carefully about fleshing out Number One's character, naming her Una and making her Illyrian? That was DC Fontana. Where was the credit, the hat tipped? Didn't something similar happen with Control on DSC? I'm not a nuTrek hater, but it does more than pay homage, and that's a problem.

You're wrong about the meaning of that story. Kirk was entirely justified in judging the Gorn not by "how they looked" but by their savage and criminal actions. What he had to face, at last, was that the barbarism of the enemy didn't justify his violating civilized norms in turn. The only way in which the Gorn had been wronged was in an act of trespass into their territory; in return, they'd slaughtered civilians and children and lured the Enterprise into an ambush intended to destroy it. None of that was in dispute, and there was no intimation of acceptance of mutual responsibility between Kirk and the Gorn captain.
They're aliens; they're difficult to understand. There were no norms being violated because first contact had not yet been made. The Kreetassans lost their shit because the cafeteria was part of the tour on the NX-01. You can let a bad first contact lead to all out war and the cost of billions (if not extinction judging by how testy these aliens are) or you can adapt to new facts on the ground. McCoy and Kirk chose the latter.

In fact, the Metron tells Kirk directly that the Gorn would have destroyed him had their roles been reversed.
Another human would have destroyed the Gorn. That's why they're not Kirk.
 
Sisko likely would have killed the Gorn and I can picture Janeway leaving him to die had the Metron not shown up. Both were capable of great mercy but also savage justice and retribution for violence committed against their crews.
 
He should do it anyway. Make it expensive for them to steal instead of coming up with their own work.
Given what Serveaux and I have said about the odds of such a venture, it sounds like you're describing a SLAPP suit, or something equivalent, which I find morally... er... what's the word? Repugnant. ;)

It's undeniable that there are ALIEN/other franchise vibes in this episode. But one would have to demonstrate quite a bit more than that to make it actionable. To reiterate, interpreting intellectual property so strictly would've prevented stuff like Battlestar Galactica from ever being made.
 
Sisko likely would have killed the Gorn and I can picture Janeway leaving him to die had the Metron not shown up. Both were capable of great mercy but also savage justice and retribution for violence committed against their crews.
Sisko wouldn't have killed it. He would've blackmailed it.
 
Given what Serveaux and I have said about the odds of such a venture, it sounds like you're describing a SLAPP suit, or something equivalent, which I find morally... er... what's the word? Repugnant. ;)
You were so close.

It's undeniable that there are ALIEN/other franchise vibes in this episode. But one would have to demonstrate quite a bit more than that to make it actionable. To reiterate, interpreting intellectual property so strictly would've prevented stuff like Battlestar Galactica from ever being made.
Galactica was about the remnants of a genocide escaping a robot army. Also the idea was that it did happen and lead to life here, not that it was a fairy tale set in a galaxy far far away. Massive differences. Interesting differences. Original takes. And it still got flack for being a rip-off, and for the ways it was similar, it deserved it. (Taking this opportunity to reiterate the genius of the remake, not the least of which for when it aired.)

You can't have it both ways. If you're going to make your work about repackaging others' own it and accept the reaction of the audience.
 
You were so close.
I wanted to say "wrong" but suddenly thought it was funnier that way as I was typing. But, were you in fact describing a "punitive" suit?

Galactica was about the remnants of a genocide escaping a robot army.
The issue with Galactica wasn't the story concept as much as all the visuals and style. In other words, not entirely a lift, but very blatantly inspired by Star Wars in many ways. As with this episode I don't think there was any legal recourse available, nor do I think there should be. People have to be able to try variations of what others are doing or it gives everyone a boring monopoly on broad ideas.
 
Sisko likely would have killed the Gorn and I can picture Janeway leaving him to die had the Metron not shown up. Both were capable of great mercy but also savage justice and retribution for violence committed against their crews.

Janeway: Well, it's to the transporter with you!
Chakotay: But... He's not two people.
J: Let's be sure about that.
 
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