Spoilers Strange New Worlds 1x02 - "Children of The Comet"

[Saumyajit]

I think Trek has historically been creative with how the prime directive is interpreted to take the storyline forward. We should go with the flow and always rationalise that it is just a guideline and open to interpretation based on the situation and sonetimes even based on which side of the bed the captain woke up on.

 

[jackoverfull]

More likely the way we interpret harmonies and how pleasing they sound to us has something to do with the way our cochlea and auditory processing centers are hardwired to interpret them.

Not really: it’s just that we are used to certain things and not to others.

The hard-headed alien that Pike dealing with is a pain in the ass, but he's supposed to be, so it's okay. It's like he walked straight off of Voyager, the way he's acting. But I like how the Enterprise crew is taking his nonsense in stride.

ahah, very true! Oh well, a Trek staple!

 

[Belz...]

Alright, perhaps your comments weren't meant to be snarky, like "you understand categories, right?"

It was merely meant to remind you that categories often overlap. So, calling something X and not Y can sometimes be misleading. After all, do you, or anyone, know when exactly a comet ceases to be a comet and begins to be something else? Is it a precise mass, or density, or size, or orbit, or something else? I certainly don't know, especially when talking about 23rd century understanding (I'm suddenly reminded of the "quasar" we saw in TOS, though this was actually due to 1960s understanding!)

I figure if the aliens could predict that the Enterprise would affect the comet and incorporate future events, affecting the climate is small potatoes in comparison. It's not like I bothered to figure out exactly how they would have done it though. I mean, it is science fiction after all.

Sure, but, from my point of view, it works better when it at least makes some sense to the viewer. So when we're told that the universal translator can analyse tone, inflection, syntax and grammar to quickly provide translations based on tens of thousands of languages, it makes sense. When instead we're told it's telepathic, less so.

Peace?

Always.

 

[jackoverfull]

Kirk saw a general Order One as a guideline. Picard saw it as a strict rule. That’s one of the differences that differentiates those two people. If Kirk could save someone who was about to die, he would. Picard may not depending on the circumstances.

yes, it’s a matter of interpretation. What we don’t know is if this is PERSONAL interpretation or if it extends to the respective eras, like this episode seems to suggest.

About pike, anyone thinking that his desire to survive his future condition might lead to Spock developing the Talos IV plan? Also: we know that he ends there, but we don’t know that he stays there forever…Just saying!

 

[Belz...]

I enjoyed the musical part. It's great when they use real science and logic, which Trek virtually never does.

In a different form, NewTrek would've never had Spock sing, somehow insisting that it's illogical or something. Here, it's La'an who refuses to pitch in, and Spock who puts his musical talent to helping with the mission. Someone in the writing team knows their classic Trek.

Sure sounded like it to me! And strangely, it appears using whatever phonetic compiler to assemble her dialogue made it sound a bit choppy, just like the ship's computer in TOS.

<WORKING!!!>

I was going off Pike's comments in the TOS pilot. Can't remember if it was 230, or 203, though.

Yeah but given the rest of the retconning I don't think we can trust that this is still true anymore.

Regardless, the size and grandeur of his cabin seems incongruous.

It sure is much bigger than what we've seen in the franchise so far. That said, it opens up narrative possibilities, such as the captain's dinner we saw, so I'm good with it.

Just another reason to believe this is a alernate uni.

Seems like you really, really want it to be an alternate, almost as if you don't want to accept any change to the "prime" timeline. I can sympathise with that. Thing is, in just about any long-running franchise, be it comics, movies or TV series, these changes occur. It'd be best for you (and me) if you (and me) just accepted it. Less annoyance that way.

 

[Cyrus]

I liked it a lot. Gave it a 9. I think the Aenar engineer is going to be great.

 

[Belz...]

no medium in space.

Again: if a sufficiently large explosion occurs, it is its OWN medium. If, when it reaches an exposed ear, it's still dense enough to make the drum vibrate, you'll hear the explosion.

"There's no sound in space" is a generality, not a mantra.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I liked it a lot. Gave it a 9. I think the Aenar engineer is going to be great.

Agreed, but I hope Hemmer isn't just a grouch all the time. Give the guy SOME sense of humor.

Please, Hemmer, don't hurt 'em!

 

[Trekker4747]

It's been a while since I've given ENT a good re-watch and processed it. I had forgotten about the Aenar.

 

[Mudd]

yes, it’s a matter of interpretation. What we don’t know is if this is PERSONAL interpretation or if it extends to the respective eras, like this episode seems to suggest.

About pike, anyone thinking that his desire to survive his future condition might lead to Spock developing the Talos IV plan? Also: we know that he ends there, but we don’t know that he stays there forever…Just saying!

Even the dialogue in "The Menagerie" suggests that Spock and Pike have discussed Spock's plan in the past, and that Pike rejected it.

I'm interested in whether Spock will develop the Kobayashi Maru test based on observing Pike's behavior.

 

[jackoverfull]

Even the dialogue in "The Menagerie" suggests that Spock and Pike have discussed Spock's plan in the past, and that Pike rejected it.

exactly.

and, by the way, when burnham got to Talos IV there was no mention of the death penalty. Perhaps that will be added in a future episode.

 

[Evil Robert]

I felt a lot of the 'spirit of the character' for Uhura borrowed a bit from what was previously set up in the novels.

It especially made me think of the writings Of the late, great Margaret Wander Bonanno who always had a special association with the character.

 

[Belz...]

Agreed, but I hope Hemmer isn't just a grouch all the time. Give the guy SOME sense of humor.

Please, Hemmer, don't hurt 'em!

Well he was amping up the grouch to tease Uhura, so he's probably less so normally.

 

[Verteron]

I think people are getting too wound up over the Prime Directive problem.

For me you can draw a pretty clear distinction between an intervention that the local pre-warp population would never even know about (such as nudging a comet) and what Nikolai Rozhenko did in Homeward or Data did in Pen Pals. In both of those cases the locals may have had their cultural development influenced by the intervention, in particular becoming aware of alien life or the impact on their culture of having their stars/geography change by being moved to another planet.

Indeed, in Pen Pals, Picard was ultimately still able to quietly intervene to help with the planet's geological problems.

The events in the Kelvin timeline on Nibiru were similar, the problem was Kirk running around in full view of the natives. This was what got him in to trouble. Actually aiding with the volcanoes seemed to be a Starfleet sanctioned mission. It was the execution that was problematic.

To summarise, there are many types of natural disasters that could wipe out an alien civilisation. Starfleet will occasionally intervene if there is no chance of cultural contamination. But if they can't save a civilisation without it being obvious they've interfered, they will not.

 

[Belz...]

The events in the Kelvin timeline on Nibiru were similarly problematic because Kirk was running around in full view of the natives. This was the bit that got him in to trouble. Actually aiding with the volcanoes seemed to be a Starfleet sanctioned mission. It was the execution that was problematic.

I think the dialogue in Pike's office was pretty clear that changing the "destiny" of that race was what he was being chewed out for.

 

[Verteron]

I think the dialogue in Pike's office was pretty clear that changing the "destiny" of that race was what he was being chewed out for.

I need to rewatch, but I think that could still be interpreted as a 'how you did it' not a 'what you did' issue.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Even the dialogue in "The Menagerie" suggests that Spock and Pike have discussed Spock's plan in the past, and that Pike rejected it.

I'm interested in whether Spock will develop the Kobayashi Maru test based on observing Pike's behavior.

I was told that one day in the future, that in the last episode of Enterprise, that Archer would run foul of the real life Kobayashi Maru that those events would inspire the exam.

If the exam is based on real life events, then almost anyone could design the original program.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think the dialogue in Pike's office was pretty clear that changing the "destiny" of that race was what he was being chewed out for.

By being seen.

being seen was illegal.

Being seen created a religion and changed their destiny.

Sneaky Spock surreptitiously slipping a cold fusion bomb in that volcano was copacetic.

OH?

Is a cold fusion bomb from into darkness they same thing as a hydro bomb from discovery?

 

[GNDN18]

Nausicaans are already known...
How can a single ship "regroup"?
The singing was straight outta Disco
So was bringing water to a desert world

Not Disco: H. Beam Piper is closer to the mark.

 

[Belz...]

By being seen.

That's one reasonable interpretation, but given how the PD has been portrayed over the years, not the only one.