Hey, I never noticed that before....

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Warped9, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    One would imagine regulations apply differently when not at a starbase.
     
  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    I just need to correct this.

    In the bar, she's completely out of uniform:
    https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_049.JPG
    https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_077.JPG

    On the ship, she's still wearing the dressy uniform she wore in court on the planet surface:
    https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_349.JPG
    https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_384.JPG
    https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_495.JPG
    https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_509.JPG
    https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_512.JPG

    And while she's sitting on the bridge, you can see the extra length of the lower hem in her lap:
    https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_357.JPG
    https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x20/Court_Martial_366.JPG
     
    Vger23 and J.T.B. like this.
  3. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Location:
    New York State
    "...and I was awarded this medal for getting a serial killer off on a technicality!"
     
  4. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
  5. Neopeius

    Neopeius Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Location:
    55 years ago
  6. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Location:
    Backwaters of Australia
    Did we ever see that that long uniform again?
    We never saw a woman's dress uniform, did we? Could that uniform be a woman's dress uniform?
     
    Richard S. Ta and Neopeius like this.
  7. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Military organizations have often had dressy uniforms that are optional, or only required at a certain rank. Of course, this is to limit expense to the individual; we don't know if Starfleet officers pay for their own uniforms. When they had a formal dinner "Space Seed," only the senior officers had dress uniforms.

    "Mufti" means civilian clothes.

    Just as in a civilian trial, it's hard to get a court-martial jury that has exactly the same life experience as the accused. Military courts usually build in another step that the court/jury members are the same grade as the accused or higher, so there is no question of influence from rank.

    It's even more curious since the members of the court were already shown walking around the club in their dress uniforms!

    I think that's most likely. It's not completely satisfactory, since the male uniforms don't use the sleeve rank, but I guess it's possible that the design of the female uniform did not allow for the rank indications (such as they were) from the male jackets. In real life, BTW, the last few years have seen US armed forces eliminating or minimizing differences between male and female uniforms; for instance USN females now wear the "choker collar" dress whites with shoulder boards, and a standardized visor cap.

    My take on possible rank representation on the (male) dress uniform. tos_dress_jacket_ranks.png
     
    Neopeius, Henoch, Phaser Two and 2 others like this.
  8. GNDN18

    GNDN18 270 Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Location:
    GNDN18
    That’s an excellent observation. As I understand it, the episode was edited in a different order than scripted so as to end the act with Kirk passionately demanding court-martial. Consequently, he changed tunics a couple of times, while somebody at Starbase Operations failed to note that the trial board—ready to go in full dress uniform, no less—are loitering about the O-club.
     
    Neopeius and Phaser Two like this.
  9. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Location:
    Back On The Shelf
    This works for Commodore Stone, but in The Menagerie, Commodore Mendez's uniform doesn't match what's seen above, rather it's just the same as Captain:
    https://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x11hd/themenageriepart1hd595.jpg
    (Possible in-universe reason: Mendez didn't pack a bag, so, he borrowed an extra dress uniform from Kirk and was able to change the service pins.)
     
    Richard S. Ta, Neopeius and J.T.B. like this.
  10. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Right. I assume they just reused the costume from Linstrom or Chandra.

    OTOH if the uniform section can whip up a Waffen SS doctor/colonel uniform in a few minutes they ought to be able to come up with a Starfleet uniform with the correct rank!
     
  11. Neopeius

    Neopeius Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Location:
    55 years ago
    The magical Hogan's Heroes wardrobe machine didn't get installed until Season 2...
     
    Richard S. Ta, J.T.B. and Henoch like this.
  12. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Location:
    Tenacity
    Spock wasn't a command officer?
     
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  13. Doug Otte

    Doug Otte Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    I don't have anything to add to everyone's fascinating responses to your comments. I just want to thank you for prompting me to watch the episode again. I hadn't seen Court Martial for 2 years or so. It's refreshing to revisit these episodes after trying to enjoy the watered-down current Trek.
     
    PCz911, Neopeius, J.T.B. and 3 others like this.
  14. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    I have some issues with "Court Martial," but for an inside-Starfleet info dump it looms very large.
     
  15. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Location:
    Backwaters of Australia
    Was Spock a command officer???
    I assume he at least had the right to be judged by people above him in rank.
    What happens when a commander goes on trial in today's Navy. Can lower ranks convict him/her? I don't know. Just assuming it would need to be someone who understood the responsibilities of his rank at not say a Doctor
     
  16. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Location:
    Noname Given
    He was in S1 so I doubt that status would change by S3. :)

    The on board Court Martial itself was technically illegal. Janice/Kirk should have relieved Spock and the others of duty and thrown them in the Brig; and proceeded to the nearest Starbase to file charges and turn them over for a proper proceeding.
     
    J.T.B. likes this.
  17. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Location:
    Mississauga
    Maybe they'd just attended another official function/were on break from another hearing.
     
    Richard S. Ta, Henoch and GNDN18 like this.
  18. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The problem is that the very beginning of that scene is voiced over with a captain's log entry in which Kirk states that "the officers who will comprise my court-martial board are proceeding to Starbase Eleven." So it's weird to see all three of them, immediately, laughing it up in the base bar. It's even stranger that the very stiff-looking dress uniforms are their idea of attire for such mirth.
     
    Richard S. Ta, GNDN18 and J.T.B. like this.
  19. GNDN18

    GNDN18 270 Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Location:
    GNDN18
    Tailhook.
     
    Phaser Two likes this.
  20. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Location:
    New York State
    When the episode aired on NBC, and for over 20 years after that in syndication, nobody ever noticed specific individuals in the restaurant and then remembered them at the legal hearing. That wouldn't come until we started studying stills on TrekCore. On TV, they were seen as just a crowd of extras, there to dramatize social activity on the base.

    The makers knew what they were doing. They slyly saved money on actors and costumes by getting double duty out of the judges and bailiff, and it worked perfectly. If you're looking for something deeper than that, you're down to scraping the emulsion off the film and crying "Fake!"