Loved the episode, especially the scenes between Jean Luc and Q. Never thought that we would see Wesley again.
But it seems that i was right about Guinan:
But it seems that i was right about Guinan:
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x10 - "Farewell"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I don’t think that Guinan was pretending to not remember Time’s Arrow, it was already explained by Terry Matalas after it first came up, the quantum state of the timeline after the initial change made the Confederation a forgone conclusion until Picard and co. fulfilled their part in things.
The finale just confirmed that it was a predestination loop, and Guinan was keeping that from Picard when he came to visit her in the season premiere, that’s what she meant by pointing out the photo of Rios and Teresa that was already up in the bar. In 2400 Guinan had her full memories, of meeting Picard in 1800s San Francisco, as well as meeting him in the at-the-time-altered 2024.
I don’t think there’s any indication or reason to believe that Guinan was privy to her part in Time’s Arrow when we first meet in 2024, but she would regain those memories after the timeline was set right at the end of this episode, and their shared experiences were reestablished by the Federation universe overwriting the Confederation universe.
The finale just confirmed that it was a predestination loop, and Guinan was keeping that from Picard when he came to visit her in the season premiere, that’s what she meant by pointing out the photo of Rios and Teresa that was already up in the bar. In 2400 Guinan had her full memories, of meeting Picard in 1800s San Francisco, as well as meeting him in the at-the-time-altered 2024.
I don’t think there’s any indication or reason to believe that Guinan was privy to her part in Time’s Arrow when we first meet in 2024, but she would regain those memories after the timeline was set right at the end of this episode, and their shared experiences were reestablished by the Federation universe overwriting the Confederation universe.
For live action series such as Picard and Disco, that may be the case (I was disappointed with Disco since it was thrusted into the 32nd century... and Picard season 1 was meh... season 2 of Picard was certainly better, though it probably could have been a lot better still)... but the animated series (LD and Prodigy) seem to be doing better if you ask me (I am certainly enjoying them more than live action - though SNW seems to be off to a good start).
I may not like ST: Discovery that much since it was thrust into the 32nd century, but it did establish 'connection'... and it seems to be echoing in other modern series (though I do think other series pull it off better)... plus I did like how the crew of Disco uphold UFP values above else - but the overtly emotional crew is rubbing me the wrong way - I just don't see them behaving like SF officers would most of the time, and that makes them prone to emotional outbursts at inappropriate moments and inability to think objectively (which I think was demonstrated in both S3 and 4).
I can see how this may be the case, but if all of what happened was a predestination paradox to begin with, then Guinan with her ability to sense changes in the timeline should have had at least a vague familiarity with Jean Luc Picard - not necessarily memories of Times Arrow, but a 'feeling' of knowing him.
It would be similar to what happened in 'Yesterday's Enterprise' really. If you recall, The ENT-C went to the future and because of the ship not being destroyed at NArendra III, Klingons and UFP didn't have closer ties.
Guinan still knew the timeline was 'off'.
From this point of view, Guinan not having memories of Jean Luc because of the quantum state of the timeline still 'favoring' Confederation (until Picard and his team ensured Renee does go on her mission) makes sense... however, Guinan probably still should have had a 'feeling' about Jean Luc Picard... a sense of familiarity.
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I think that makes sense, and that it’s supported by Guinan getting a bout of El-Aurian “time sickness,” or Af-Kelt, when Picard quotes her. She was sensitive to the existence of their friendship in the unaltered Prime timeline, and just needed a little reminding to feel the effects of the timeline’s alterations.
I think that makes sense, and that it’s supported by Guinan getting a bout of El-Aurian “time sickness,” or Af-Kelt, when Picard quotes her. She was sensitive to the existence of their friendship in the unaltered Prime timeline, and just needed a little reminding to feel the effects of the timeline’s alterations.
"Guinan: I'm sorry I couldn't tell you sooner. I just knew that if I guided you right, set you straight, you'd circle around eventually. And I also want to thank you for setting me straight first. I can't believe if you don't say it. You know, I wondered if it was gonna be a bit of a spoiler keeping it there, but you have always been more clever than observant."
Think it's very possible she remembered "Time's Arrow" but she was really depressed and pretended not to knew about that encounter at first until he told her his name again, if we only look at onscreen stuff and considering the reveal that she was holding back the information about Rios' fate in the same dialogue
Everything in that dialogue points to her keeping this season’s time travel adventure from him in the season premiere. Guinan even says explicitly that Picard set her straight first, as in, before she guided him when they spoke in 2400 before he went on the Stargazer. She mentions that she kept the 2024 meeting from him, punctuated with the photo and story of Rios. I don’t think there’s any other implication being made in the scene between Picard and Guinan.
Someone else came up with the term. It just simplifies the description for the new Borg Queen.
Unless you have a better shorter name for her?
Perhaps, Juborg Queen?
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I feel the same way.
Right up until the moment of VOY Endgame at least... past that point, only the Jurati/Borg Queen would likely be the only one (at least I would think).
Given that VOY managed to destroy the Borg TW network entirely and future Admiral Janeway destroyed the Borg queen along with Unimatrix 1 in the DQ (central nervous system of the Borg of sorts), I would imagine the Collective was unable to manufacture any new queens... so then when this happened... its possible the Jurati/Borg Queen stepped in and reconnected the disbanded drones across the Galaxy into a new (kinder/good) Borg Collective... and probably gave previous drone a choice on whether to remain in the new Collective, or leave.
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Did anyone check whether when Picard first visited Guinan's bar, the Rios picture was there?
9/10
It was a pretty decent finale. The Q and Picard stuff was good. "Even Gods have favorites," was the perfect explanation for their relationship. No galactic consequence. They wrapped up pretty much all of the dangling plot threads. Seeing Wesley, although the portrayal seemed more Wil Wheaton than Wesley Crusher, as a Traveler was unexpected but not a terrible thing. There was a lot of meandering filler this season though. As others have mentioned this could have been wrapped up in a shorter mini series and been a tighter story. Episodes 1 and 2 were strong and episodes 9 and 10 were equally strong. The stuff in between was somewhat boring at times.
I could nitpick some more stuff: the Kore uselessness this season, Q antagonizing Soong to seemingly start WWIII, how easily and quickly Soong was defeated, Rios staying behind, a galactic discharge threat that could end planets and billions of lives stopped by a small fleet of 27 starships combining their shields... but overall it was enjoyable to watch. Bring on the TNG reunion and Captain Worf finally.
It was a pretty decent finale. The Q and Picard stuff was good. "Even Gods have favorites," was the perfect explanation for their relationship. No galactic consequence. They wrapped up pretty much all of the dangling plot threads. Seeing Wesley, although the portrayal seemed more Wil Wheaton than Wesley Crusher, as a Traveler was unexpected but not a terrible thing. There was a lot of meandering filler this season though. As others have mentioned this could have been wrapped up in a shorter mini series and been a tighter story. Episodes 1 and 2 were strong and episodes 9 and 10 were equally strong. The stuff in between was somewhat boring at times.
I could nitpick some more stuff: the Kore uselessness this season, Q antagonizing Soong to seemingly start WWIII, how easily and quickly Soong was defeated, Rios staying behind, a galactic discharge threat that could end planets and billions of lives stopped by a small fleet of 27 starships combining their shields... but overall it was enjoyable to watch. Bring on the TNG reunion and Captain Worf finally.
It wasn't.
Well, more accurately, there's no camera angle looking where it would be.
Twas a knee-jerk reaction indeed, but fun at the time.
Except that it's true and you know it.
Terry Matalas retweeted this.
Its not really complicated.
What we have are unanswered questions about the UFP timeline Borg.
VOY obliterated the entire Borg TW network along with Unimatrix 1 and the Queen by hand of future Admiral Janeway in 'Endgame' when she introduced a neurolithic pathogen into the Queen and unimatrix 1.
Unimatrix 1 was almost like a central unicomplex (the nerve center) of the Collective we knew, at which Borg Queens were made.
What we don't know is if whether the Collective we know was able to recover from that loss (aside from the damaged Artifact in Picard S1, we haven't heard anything of the Borg in decades).
Its one thing to destroy a Borg Queen at a remote location who was on a lone Borg ship... but its something else to eradicate the Queen alongside the main unicomplex that made her and where she is stationed (usually).
As such, I would think the Borg we know might not have fully recovered from that. Most drones and ships were likely disconnected from the Hive mind at that time (which without a queen to bring order to it... chaos ensued).
Enter Jurati/Borg Queen, and she may have stepped in after 'Endgame' events to offer these disconnected drones a new way of life in a new/kinder Collective or a chance to be individuals if they didn't want to be part of the collective anymore - and I would imagine that many people who were forcibly assimilated wouldn't want that, but a chance to return home... however some others who might not have hada home to begin with or didn't have a sense of purpose in life could have opted to remain in this new collective.
And if the Borg we know remain... why hadn't we heard from them and what kind of a clash could ensue if the DQ Borg from the Prime Timeline encounter these new Borg?
Is it possible the original UFP timeline Borg recuperated after Endgame and tried to rebuild the TW network... and somehow managed to construct a new type of TW conduit which at its formation would have also obliterated majority of the sector in the AQ?
Interesting that it was very close to Earth. It wouldn't surprise me if this conduit appeared at the same position the exit TW aperture was from which VOY emerged in 'Endgame'.
This could be the old Borg preparing to come to the AQ en mass.
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