Moscow on the Hudson was also an interesting movie. Certainly mired in Cold War imagery, but definitely more drama than comedic.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x10 - "Farewell"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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When he said that he would die alone, I yelled, "You have a girlfriend and a son!"
I kinda took it as Soong was either involved or partially involved in Khan's creation and just happened to have the file from the Eugenics War in 1996. I could see his ego being bruised by Picard and Q and Kore and Soong working on another batch of Augments based on Project: Khan, which would then result in a full blown Eugenics Wars after the second American Civil War leading into World War III. So, there could be a Eugenic War (or spat) involving Khan and his minions in 1996 and a full blown shit show war leading up to the ECON attack in 2053 (which would be consistent with what Captain Pike described in SNW and wouldn't invalidate past Trek about the dates of the war)
I like the idea that Jurati/the Queen worked their way through the collective and after Janeway decimated them they stepped in and sneakily changed the Collective for good. Now I guess they do not assimilate anymore but just produce baby Borgs in chambers...?
Ridiculous and chidlish as it may sound, this season made me feel dumb - literally dumb. And it's goddamn frustrating.
In the end, I truly don't understand what the point of this entire season even was. I don't know what the reason for Picard's flashbacks to his childhood were supposed to mean nor I don't know what Q was ultimately trying to prove to Picard. And I sat there for all ten episodes, but, I guess I either wasn't paying close enough attention or I'm just not smart enough to get it.
The show seems to be trying to operate on some elevated and artful level that I'm just not getting.
In the end, I truly don't understand what the point of this entire season even was. I don't know what the reason for Picard's flashbacks to his childhood were supposed to mean nor I don't know what Q was ultimately trying to prove to Picard. And I sat there for all ten episodes, but, I guess I either wasn't paying close enough attention or I'm just not smart enough to get it.
The show seems to be trying to operate on some elevated and artful level that I'm just not getting.
who said he didn’t?
the point was getting people to pay for Paramount+ (or whatever service it streams in their country).
No, it was just some decent ideas executed incredibly poorly.
Who's to say he didn't pay a visit to Janeway? Although personally I never thought the Q/Janeway relationship worked very well. Q mostly just came across as a creep and a sexual harasser.
TNG S1, S2, S7, DS9 S1, S2, VOY S1, S6, and S7, and ENT S1 S2, with the exceptions of a few good episodes scattered about, were all worse than PIC S2.
He doesn't. And I doubt he needs or wants your pity.
That was an amazing moment. The culmination of 35 years of stories between these two characters, and them finally reaching a moment where they can transcend their roles and just connect to one-another as people who've learned to care about each other.
That scene just made me smile. Yeah, he was basically adapting his "Professional Star Trek Hypeman" public persona he uses on The Ready Room, but to be honest, I think it worked well for who Wesley has become.
I would have liked to know more, but there's something to be said for preserving an air of mystery about the Q, too.
Because the Queen was alone, cut off from any other Borg, weakened, her nanoprobes damaged and unable to rewire Jurati's neurons the way they normally would.
It's pretty remarkable! Very few actors enjoy that kind of longevity with a single role, especially after an 18-year hiatus.
Yep. For convenience, I think I'm going to refer to these Borg as the Borg Cooperative, or the Borg Co-op, to distinguish them from the authoritarian Borg Collective we saw in TNG and VOY.
Here's a thought: If the Borg Cooperative become a Federation Member State... how would the Federation Councillor for the Borg Cooperative be elected? Would they just designate a random Cooperative member to function as Federation Councillor on their behalf? Would the Cooperative Queen go?
And if the Borg Cooperative becomes a Federation Member State and its members become Federation citizens -- does that mean they would be eligible to run for Federation President?
How would they vote? Would each Cooperative member get a vote, or would the Cooperative get one vote since they're all one gestalt consciousness?
It would be a nice plot device to bring in Isa Briones whenever they feel like it!
That hug
I KNOW RIGHT?
I'm honestly a little bummed that we won't get to have Rios and Jurati in S3 tbh. I really like the idea of Jurati reforming the Borg, but I'm also a little sad because I would have liked to have seen a story about how someone with her personality functions in the Federation instead of her just having a sci-fi fantastical destiny.
Could be. "Wars" is plural. I got the impression the writers were going for strategic ambiguity, so that viewers who wanted to imagine it got moved to WW3 could do so and viewers who wanted to imagine they stilled happened in the 1990s could do so.
I would assume that Guinan retains the members of her alternate selves when timeline ripples settle.
I mean, we saw her "take over" for like thirty seconds at a time. I got the impression it couldn't last more than a minute or two and that's why she had to keep taking over a new host.
I would imagine that the Borg Cooperative only assimilates fully grown adults who consent to joining its gestalt mind.
I mean, they spelled everything out, but I'll try to lay it out again:
Q is dying. Q is alone -- his relationships have, for whatever reason, failed. (It is unclear if he includes Q Jr in that declaration or if he just means he does not have a partner, but it is consistent with VOY "Q2," where we learn that Q and Mrs. Q have broken up.) Q, in his final moments, is considering Jean-Luc Picard, and how much he wants Jean-Luc, whom he honestly does care about in his way, to be happy and to learn to love.
Jean-Luc, you may recall, was a 59-year-old bachelor when we first met him, yet he longed for marriage and children and he was not asexual nor aromantic, nor did he have a career that precluded a partner and family. He spent, you may recall, two decades giving mixed signals to Beverly Crusher, only having casual flings, and ending every relationship that got serious. He had, in other words, from the very beginning of TNG, a fear of commitment and intimacy. This fear of intimacy stems from his blaming himself for his mother's death.
Q also knows that unless Jean-Luc and company go through the chain of events that results in the merging of Agnes Jurati and the Borg Queen into a new entity, the Borg Cooperative will never evolve, and will be unable to intervene to save the Alpha Quadrant from the anomaly that forms in 2401.
Q, therefore, plucks Picard and company out of the moment when the Stargazer self-destructs and sends them on the chain of events that will result in the creation of the Borg Cooperative.
At the same time, be decides to kill two birds with one stone. He wants Jean-Luc to learn to forgive himself and open himself up to real love. So, he manufactures a chain of events that will result in Picard learning to do so and which will also allow Tallinn (who is doomed in every timeline) the opportunity to meet Renee and tell her she loves her. To do this, Q manipulates both Renee and Adam Soong; he manipulates Renee to make her vulnerable to her depression, knowing that Jean-Luc will figure that out and help her through it -- and knowing that him doing that will start Jean-Luc's mind down the path of examining his memories of the night of his mother's suicide, and that Tallinn will help him through it. He manipulates Soong into trying to kill Renee because doing so manufactures a chain of events in which both Tallinn can help Jean-Luc work through his guilt and in which she can finally meet Renee once before she dies. Q also apparently emancipates Kore because doing so leads to her being recruited by the Travelers.
Then, at the end, after he has explained everything to Jean-Luc, he sacrifices his own life to send Jean-Luc and co back to the Prime 2401, where their newfound understanding of the benevolent nature of the Borg Cooperative leads to the Borg Cooperative and the Federation saving the Alpha Quadrant from this anomaly and an enduring peace with these new Borg. And the insights Jean-Luc gained as a result of Q's intervention lead him to find the courage to open himself up to a relationship with Laaris.
"Q2" established that Q and Mrs. Q had broken up. We don't know the status of his relationship with his offspring; either Q Jr and he are estranged -- which would make Q's efforts to help Jean-Luc gain the self-insight to avoid his (Q's) fate all the more poignant -- or he was referring to not having a partner when he said he didn't want that for Jean-Luc. Either way, I don't think Q Jr was worth mentioning -- he was an extraneous element who was never part of Q's and Jean-Luc's relationship, and it's easy enough to infer that they're estranged given that "Q2" established they had an unstable relationship.
It jives surprisingly well with established Borg Queen history.
Both her attempts with Locutus and Data to find/create an equal counterpart.
Both atttempts failed, because one was entirely forced while the other was based on manipulation and corruption.
Jurati was the first person to offer herself willingly (something Picard also deducts about the whole Locutus affair).
What a wonderful episode this was. The pacing was on point, and no plot point from this season was left unsolved. The finale had some space fr all the characters to do their own thing, which gave me satisfying endings to these characters, especially considering this could be the last time we see some of them. Many scenes left me smiling, passings don't always have to be sad things.
I originally planned to watch this first and then Strange New Worlds, but I woke up early and since Paramount+ updates 12 hours before Prime Video, I decided to watch SNW early in the morning, and Picard then later after work. Worked as well like that. Anyway, this was a satisfying finale, and makes me eager for season 3. A full 10/10.
I originally planned to watch this first and then Strange New Worlds, but I woke up early and since Paramount+ updates 12 hours before Prime Video, I decided to watch SNW early in the morning, and Picard then later after work. Worked as well like that. Anyway, this was a satisfying finale, and makes me eager for season 3. A full 10/10.
Just still cannot believe how many comments read how "beautifully tragic and emotional" Picard's mother's death was... And I cannot get over the melodramatic stupidity behind it.
Let's see: In Star Trek, a 24th century human being could not be cured, but was dragged down to a Victorian dungeon with a straitjacket, in the 24th century.
Then, in a white dress she kills herself WITH A ROPE! How on Earth did she get thet rope In the 24th century? There is just no technology for a less painful way? Ok, the excuse could be: the replicator was programmed, so that she could not make a phaser or poison. But she was allowed to create a ROPE? This makes no sense.
Also, if nobody could help her and she suffered so much, they just locked her in a room? Is that a solution? She just has to live on and suffer? If they could not help her by anything, isn't it morally wrong to force her to live is way, locked up?
This would be the a real ST moral question, this would be the topic of a real Star Trek. These are not ST people or a future. This is just 21th century humans with technology. And a progressive show that portrays mental illness by white dresses and straitjackets in the 24th century...
And they call this TRAGIC AND EMOTIONAL?????????
theres should be spoiler tags
Can't sleep. One area that I've mentioned earlier in another thread is that the Q aspect of this season falls short. Unfortunately, that part of it falls even shorter than I originally realized.
"You have to love yourself before you can love others" sounds good and all, and would work if Picard never found true love, except he has. The PIC theme comes from "The Inner Light". It's memorable music. So memorable that it comes back in "Lessons" where he's playing that music... with someone he loves! He loved Daren. When he thinks she dies, it hits him hard. You can see it in Picard and you can see it in Patrick Stewart's performance.
"Lessons" is a powerful episode in its own right. And when you listen to Picard and Daren practicing their music, warming up, a few of the beats there also made their way into the beginning of the PIC Theme. It's easier to make out those few simple notes in the S1 version of theme, and you have to know what you're looking for, but they're there.
"Lessons" really sticks out. In a way that's good for "Lessons", but makes Q's whole point in Season 2 of PIC not work. "All you need is love! Love is all you need!" They really under-thought the Q angle.
Picard is demisexual. When he falls for someone, he falls for them hard, but normally he's just not that interested in romance. That doesn't have to do with guilt. People who feel guilty can fall in love too. But you can't force people to fall in love just to fall in love. It's either there or it's not.
More to the point: There's either something there between Picard and Laris or there's not.
"You have to love yourself before you can love others" sounds good and all, and would work if Picard never found true love, except he has. The PIC theme comes from "The Inner Light". It's memorable music. So memorable that it comes back in "Lessons" where he's playing that music... with someone he loves! He loved Daren. When he thinks she dies, it hits him hard. You can see it in Picard and you can see it in Patrick Stewart's performance.
"Lessons" is a powerful episode in its own right. And when you listen to Picard and Daren practicing their music, warming up, a few of the beats there also made their way into the beginning of the PIC Theme. It's easier to make out those few simple notes in the S1 version of theme, and you have to know what you're looking for, but they're there.
"Lessons" really sticks out. In a way that's good for "Lessons", but makes Q's whole point in Season 2 of PIC not work. "All you need is love! Love is all you need!" They really under-thought the Q angle.
Picard is demisexual. When he falls for someone, he falls for them hard, but normally he's just not that interested in romance. That doesn't have to do with guilt. People who feel guilty can fall in love too. But you can't force people to fall in love just to fall in love. It's either there or it's not.
More to the point: There's either something there between Picard and Laris or there's not.
Maybe she left him and he's all grown up. We have no idea how long it's been for him.
Look, I have had this exact discussion on another thread and people said that curing her would have been "wrong" or "unethical" or whatever. Because violent mood changes caused by biochemical imbalance are the true essence of a human being and we are not allowed to change that. Or something.
I have a dear friend of mine with a similar condition and she would be so incredible happy to have a definitive cure for her condition and not to living in fear to forget to take a pill. She sometimes (very rarely) did it and then bad things happened.
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This doesn't become more true every time you tediously trot it out you know?
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