Spoilers Strange New Worlds 1x01 - "Strange New Worlds"

[Tuskin38]

Spoiler

Pike does place his accident "ten years from now."

Spoiler

Oof, I wonder if the writers were still thinking from the perspective of DSC Seasons 1 or 2. Because if this is after DSC Season 2 in 2259 like the prop showcase said, then 10 years would place it after 'The Menagerie'
Also odd, how did Pike know when it was? Nothing in the vision gave a year

 

[Mudd]

Spoiler

Oof, I wonder if the writers were still thinking from the perspective of DSC Seasons 1 or 2. Because if this is after DSC Season 2 in 2259 like the prop showcase said, then 10 years would place it after 'The Menagerie'
Also odd, how did Pike know when it was? Nothing in the vision gave a year

We learn more about the nature of his experience that will influence his perspective more than once in at least the first two episodes. He knows much.

Ten years is a reasonable estimate, IMO. We still have no substantial, on-screen timeline by year for all of the events in Trek history. Dates like 2259 and 2264 are, according to the accounts of the show staff who put those timelines together, to be understood as conjectural until and unless fully established onscreen. I think that has to apply on a date-by-date basis, no matter how many of the events have been confirmed onscreen since the official reference works were published.

BTW, I'll also say out here, untagged, that the ending scenes with Enterprise on STD are not reflected literally in the events shown in "Strange New World." Some folks will wonder "Why are they showing this now when we saw that in 'Such Sweet Sorrow,' and so forth.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Sam was never in Starfleet.

Says who?

He was a research biologist "stationed" on Deneva. Where in "Operation -- Annihilate!" (and, for that matter, where in "What Are Little Girls Made of?") was it said that Sam was never in Starfleet?

 

[Mudd]

Says who?

He was a research biologist "stationed" on Deneva. Where in "Operation -- Annihilate!" (and, for that matter, where in "What Are Little Girls Made of?") was it said that Sam was never in Starfleet?

I don't see anything at Memory-Alpha that would establish any "never." I think where more people might take issue is that the character is usually thought of as being the older sibling, which tracks originally to a descriptive line in the script for "Operation - Annihilate!" but never mentioned onscreen. My impression here is that he may be younger, but who can say?

 

[Tuskin38]

Sam in TOS was played by Shatner with a fake moustache

 

[Mudd]

Sam in TOS was played by Shatner with a fake moustache.

The producers have played this one very cagey and well, but I think - based upon browsing the SNW Cast and Crew pages at IMDB and matching up actor photographs, that Sam may be played by Ian Rayburn:



Rayburn is listed as cast in one episode, #10, as "Groomas Groom." Sam appears at least in episodes 1 and 2. But this actor looks very much to me like Sam Kirk.

There is no actor or role listed for his part in the second episode, "Children of The Comet," in which he plays a significant but largely passive role.

 

[Tuskin38]

Memory-Alpha editors are ripping their hair out trying to figure out how they're going to reconcile April's ethnicity change.

M-A Considers TAS as canon as the rest of the franchise, and if SNW and TAS are both Prime. heh

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

He was a research biologist "stationed" on Deneva. Where in "Operation -- Annihilate!" (and, for that matter, where in "What Are Little Girls Made of?") was it said that Sam was never in Starfleet?

Where was it said that he WAS?

Memory-Alpha editors are ripping their hair out trying to figure out how they're going to reconcile April's ethnicity change.

M-A Considers TAS as canon as the rest of the franchise, and if SNW and TAS are both Prime. heh

TAS is just a cartoon. Even though it's canon now, you can't really take the visuals at face value.

For example, take the Bonaventure. Supposedly the first ship with warp drive, yet it looks exactly like a Constitution class? Nuh uh. The Bonnie as shown on DS9 - in Keiko's classroom - is obviously how it's really supposed to look. Of course they're nothing alike, but as I said...it's only a cartoon. If there are any discrepancies, visually, between it and any live-action series, live action always wins.

Same goes for April.

 

[Tuskin38]

Where was it said that he WAS?

The episode never says he was in Starfleet, but it also never says he wasn't.

So SNW putting him in starfleet doesn't contradict anything.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Where was it said that he WAS?

That's not how this works.

So SNW putting him in starfleet doesn't contradict anything.

Exactly. That's how this works.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The episode never says he was in Starfleet, but it also never says he wasn't.

So SNW putting him in starfleet doesn't contradict anything.

Perhaps not. But if Sam was former Starfleet, then why didin't we hear about this before?

 

[fireproof78]

^ Perhaps not. But if Sam was former Starfleet, then why didin't we hear about this before?

It wasn't relevant to the story being told.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It was mentioned that Sam was "stationed" ("... Annihilate!") and "wanted to be transferred" ("... Little Girls..."). Sounds to me like TOS established he was a member of some sort of service.

 

[Mudd]

Perhaps not. But if Sam was former Starfleet, then why didin't we hear about this before?

You'd do well to stop backpedaling and moving goalposts in your attempt to defend this erroneous statement:

Can't be. Sam was never in Starfleet.

That's wrong.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I suppose Sam could have been off duty when he died, thus explaining why he wasn't in uniform...

Still, though, as devoted as Jim is to Starfleet, I would think that if his brother was in the service as well, something would have come up.

And if Sam was stationed at Deneva in service to Starfleet, why wasn't anyone with him? Why no fellow officers? What would a Starfleet science officer be doing there alone?

 

[Mudd]

So, at one point, Chapel derives a gene therapy treatment from the blood of a Kiley-ite (don't know what they're calling the people of Kiley Something-Or-Other) in a few seconds, then rushes it to the transporter where Chief Kyle improvises beaming the serum directly into Spock's bloodstream on the planet below, in full view of Kiley security personnel. The serum takes instantaneous effect.

This is so weird that I'll be relieved if, when I watch it this Thursday, it turns out that I misconstrued and misunderstood part of this when I saw it yesterday afternoon. In any event, it's a singular WTF is Goldsman Doing?! moment in the middle of an otherwise pretty taut story that makes ingenuous use of our familiarity with Star Trek's technology (in one really frightening way, in fact).

You'll see the lead-up to this in the SNW featurette, where Kyle protests "Transporters don't do that," to which Ortegas responds, "I need you to find a way to MAKE it do that!"

There is nothing else comparable in either of the first two shows, I'm delighted to report. But what the fuck, the damn gadget used to split people into Good and Evil and shunt them off to parallel universes and back again. So...

 

[Markonian]

And if Sam was stationed at Deneva in service to Starfleet, why wasn't anyone with him? Why no fellow officers? What would a Starfleet science officer be doing there alone?

Perhaps was only in Starfleet for a time and then left.

 

[Mudd]

And if Sam was stationed at Deneva in service to Starfleet, why wasn't anyone with him? Why no fellow officers? What would a Starfleet science officer be doing there alone?

Go ahead and make up your own explanation.

It isn't even a little challenging.

You could start with something like, oh, I dunno, "Maybe Sam is a civilian ten years after SNW."

This kind of i-dotting and t-crossing is not something that writers owe the audience as a facet of good storytelling. At this point in the season, it would be a waste of time to no good purpose.

Now, let's back up to "Can't be. [He] was never in Starfleet," okay? What part of that claim can you actually present evidence to defend?

 

[fireproof78]

I suppose Sam could have been off duty when he died, thus explaining why he wasn't in uniform...

Still, though, as devoted as Jim is to Starfleet, I would think that if his brother was in the service as well, something would have come up.

And if Sam was stationed at Deneva in service to Starfleet, why wasn't anyone with him? Why no fellow officers? What would a Starfleet science officer be doing there alone?

One, careers don't always last that long. This is ten years prior.

Two, family rarely comes up in Trek until it is plot relevant.

Three, Starfleet has been demonstrated to do observations by solo individuals and by small teams.

This isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Mudd]

It is, in fact, a non-deal.