Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x08 - "Mercy"

[Mr Awe]

It's amusing thus far to watch the extreme swing in fan response from "Greatest Star Trek ever! Star Trek is back!" early on to now with the "Ho, hum, so much filler. Why does Star Trek suck so bad?"

I work with teens and I've seen smaller mood swings that that during a depressive episode.

Being dismissive like that isn't cool. Just because someone doesn't share your opinion doesn't make them like a "teen."

My opinion has changed during the course of this season, but for good reasons. I loved the first several episodes and rated them accordingly. However, the quality has declined as the season wore on, and so have my ratings.

I call them as I see them.

 

[Lord Garth]

Basically, they feel the same way as Patrick did..My words here, but there are hundreds of episodes of Berman Trek...why do the same thing now? Why does it have to look like those shows from the 80s/90s like so many people want? Would that be of interest to the actors/writers/production designers/creatives involved with the show?

Sums up most of my posts since Day One.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I think some of the complaint pages feed off each other. I've even seen some people on twitter say they liked the show, then started watching the youtube reviews, and now hate it.

That makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure anyone's really going to be swayed from liking something when they find someone pointing out flaws, but I can see someone who was already disappointed getting more and more fuel for their frustration from others.

 

[Mr Awe]

That makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure anyone's really going to be swayed from liking something when they find someone pointing out flaws, but I can see someone who was already disappointed getting more and more fuel for their frustration from others.

Man, I really want to like Picard! I'm trying!

I'm falling short of that goal, but not because of other posters. It's the episodes themselves.

Of course, I'm glad for those who are enjoying it more. That's the way it goes. Different tastes and all.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I still think he's Ducane...

Wait.

He's not Ducane.

But Wells is a massive dog-whistle that he is Ducane.

Those f##king c#ck teasers.

They wanted to trick us into thinking a legacy character was going to timeywhimey the show, and...

Bait and switch.

They gain nothing from this ratshit bump, except for our contentious anger for having our fingers crushed in the cookie jar...

This was a personal attack!!

We were targeted and then they caused us pain because we brave few have paid a little too much attention.

####.

I still think it's Ducane.

 

[Danja]

I've also seen complaints about season 2 not feeling like Trek because it's on Earth.

How many eps/movies have we had that were set on Earth?

I really don't get behind the statements that Star Trek has to be a certain thing or has to "feel" a certain way. I even saw somewhere someone say the new shows should have Matte paintings so it could feel like the old shows...i mean really?

Sure ... Pretend it's the pre-CGI era and Trek has a $5 budget.

We can do better.

 

[fireproof78]

Being dismissive like that isn't cool. Just because someone doesn't share your opinion doesn't make them like a "teen.

Let me very, very, clear. I am not dismissing anyone. I am stating my observation that the mood swings towards the episodes expressed are reminding me of teen mood swings, and they strike me as being very intense. Not that having an opinion makes them a teen.

There is a difference.

My opinion has changed during the course of this season, but for good reasons. I loved the first several episodes and rated them accordingly. However, the quality has declined as the season wore on, and so have my ratings.

I call them as I see them.

You call them as you see them. I don't agree or disagree or even have an opinion on this season. I just am watching the mood of the crowd and amazed by the shifts from beginning to end.

 

[Danja]

On a similar note, we should have had a flashback to Raffi guilting Elnor into starting the academy in the premiere or at least before he died...or if not the entire flashback at least a reference to it. Why did we have to wait 5 weeks to find that she blamed herself..it would have been stronger if we knew that at the time we saw her react to his death.

Elnor was already in the Academy when S2 premiered. Where would you put it?

 

[Vale]

One of the most vocal anti-Picard people I know IRL has only ever seen the first episode, he just knows it's "woke" and "shit" now. Also, he heard about the "sheer fucking hubris" line, and he's still ranting about how swearing shouldn't be in Star Trek. This from a guy who swears like a sailor with piles throughout most normal conversation, of course

 

[Mr Awe]

You call them as you see them. I don't agree or disagree or even have an opinion on this season. I just am watching the mood of the crowd and amazed by the shifts from beginning to end.

Point is that many of those "mood swings" (as you like to call them dismissively) are due to quality swings in the episodes.

 

[Danja]

One of the most vocal anti-Picard people I know IRL has only ever seen the first episode, he just knows it's "woke" and "shit" now. Also, he heard about the "sheer fucking hubris" line, and he's still ranting about how swearing shouldn't be in Star Trek.

He clearly hasn't been around many military officers.

They've raised profanity to the level of high art!

 

[donners22]

Point is that many of those "mood swings" (as you like to call them dismissively) are due to quality swings in the episodes.

The comment was in the context of extreme and petulant reactions to the episodes.

It is one thing to claim a decline in quality in the episodes, it is another to throw a tantrum about it.

The quality of DS9 episodes dropped off a cliff late in season 6. I just shrugged and moved on to the next episode; if YouTubers were around then they'd be tearing off and stomping on their Starfleet uniforms.

Sadly, that is what social media discourse is like. That sort of conduct gets views.

 

[Yistaan]

I just rewatched the ending of the episode and noticed Guinan was in the background listening to Picard and his crew plotting to take down the Borg Queen, stop her 400 year head start on assimilation, etc. and likely not understanding anything they said. By the time all is said and done, Guinan's going to have one hell of a mind**** once she puts two and two together during the assimilation of El-Auria, and be furious that Picard knew the whole time that this would happen to her people and never said anything (although one could argue she already went through that chain of reasoning after Time's Arrow).

 

[Alexander Corrino]

It’s kinda simple - those in charge and around PIC are ALL Trekkies. They ARE making Star Trek - only they’re making THEIR interpretation of it (which, naturally, clashes with the interpretation of other fans, ask a group of Trekkies what they want to see on Star Trek and you get a whole BUNCH of different answers), combined with the fact that the basic mantra is “do not re-hash what was done before”. They’re writing what THEY think is awesome and counts as modern Star Trek. And they’re clearly not above shoving some stuff aside to make their story work (much like Gene Roddenberry himself did btw, when he found TNG clashing with what was said on TOS he simply said “eh the newer thing counts as canon now” - this is therefore not exactly a new way to handle things).

This is why I think the fact that there are so many Trekkies in charge IS part of the “problem” that quite a few people have with the show (not talking about the rabid haters of course, they would hate it all even if they did make the most perfect Star Trek show ever). If you hire die-hard fans to make a show, you GET a massively fannish show with tons of fan service and Easter eggs that those fans pour all of their personal “this is cool” interpretations in rather than a show that tries to strike a balance between “this might be what the fans in general would like to see because they liked this in the past, I did a lot of research even though I myself am not a Trekkie” and “this is what we want to write and what we think could work”.

As for season 3 - yes, Matalas has said it’s “fundamentally different” from the first two seasons. I still don’t think it’s gonna be the TNG nostalgia fest that many parts of the fandom seem to so desperately want. It was the plan from the start to have all the TNG characters coming back, but they always said “only if it serves the story”. And that’s what’s happening - they’ll have the characters because the STORY was asking for THEM, not the other way around. The story will be what drives this, and the characters will be placed inside it. And they will be different from their TNG days, too. As much as I can understand the desire for TNG 2.0… this very likely won’t be it. It will be what the Trekkies IN CHARGE OF THE SHOW think of as “an appropriate send-off for the TNG crew”. Not what the FANS think. And if there’s anything that PIC has been teaching us it’s that these two interpretations are often a zillion light years apart.

 

[Danja]

This is why I think the fact that there are so many Trekkies in charge IS part of the “problem” that quite a few people have with the show (not talking about the rabid haters of course, they would hate it all even if they did make the most perfect Star Trek show ever).

Spoiler: Strange New Worlds

They're whining about a heterosexual Spock.

If you hire die-hard fans to make a show, you GET a massively fannish show with tons of fan service and Easter eggs that those fans pour all of their personal “this is cool” interpretations in rather than a show that tries to strike a balance between “this might be what the fans in general would like to see because they liked this in the past, I did a lot of research even though I myself am not a Trekkie” and “this is what we want to write and what we think could work”.

IOW, Lower Decks S1

 

[Cyrus]

In this episode it was kind of confirmed that Rene Picard’s space mission is the trigger for timeline change. This means that Q was intentionally trying to create the confederation timeline, even after he lost his powers. Hopefully there is a good explanation as to why.

 

[Sparky]

In this episode it was kind of confirmed that Rene Picard’s space mission is the trigger for timeline change. This means that Q was intentionally trying to create the confederation timeline, even after he lost his powers. Hopefully there is a good explanation as to why.

The trap is immaterial, it's the escape that counts.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

So, Renée discovers a microbe that she believes to be sentient, and that somehow invalidates Soong's research into genetic engineering?

The discovery of life will give hope and therefore humanity will not turn to Soong to be saved. None of which matters cause WW3 is coming.

The Jay Karnes stuff was pretty pointless and (obviously) he wasn't Ducane

Absolute waste of runtime especially the tease of "stuck in the past"

 

[Photoman15]

I still think he's Ducane...

Wait.

He's not Ducane.

But Wells is a massive dog-whistle that he is Ducane.

Those f##king c#ck teasers.

They wanted to trick us into thinking a legacy character was going to timeywhimey the show, and...

Bait and switch.

They gain nothing from this ratshit bump, except for our contentious anger for having our fingers crushed in the cookie jar...

This was a personal attack!!

We were targeted and then they caused us pain because we brave few have paid a little too much attention.

####.

I still think it's Ducane.

But which Ducane? From the Federation or the Confederation?

 

[Skipper]

Excuse me if this has already been asked (I have not read all 26 pages). Canonically, how many alien races have visited Earth in the past? Ferengi, Vulcans, and who else?