Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[BillJ]

I think the bar being named 10 Forward in the past annoyed me more than the Guinan thing (because at least you can play cute with the BTTF timeline change thing and try to explain it). the bar on the Enterprise was named that for it's location (10th deck, forward). Guinan naming the bar on Earth post-TNG is a fun wink, no issues. Her naming it that pre-TNG makes no sense if she doesn't remember the future at all. The heavy-handed "it's just an address" is silly, and beyond coincidence if she didn't specifically hunt that out as a joke. Not exactly the hill I'm going to die on, but it's annoying. Would have just preferred that Picard recognized that it was where Guinan's bar is while it had a different name in 2024...

We know Guinan has an awareness beyond linear time. It may have just been a name of something important to her that she was only vaguely aware of.

 

[fireproof78]

Just... for the love of god don't drink any of it.

Looks like anti-freeze.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The redlettermedia guys are gonna be especially brutal with this episode. They love hate watching this show and The Ready Room. Poor Wil Wheaton.

Fuck those guys.

 

[Amaris]

Looks like anti-freeze.

That is certainly one of the nicer things said about it.

 

[UssGlenn]

I always thought a central point of that episode was that the two men of color are immediately locked up, while the white woman is just as quickly rescued and cared for.

The show never explicitly said Bashir was of middle eastern descent at all. It's just been presumed due to his last name, the actor's background and - eventually - the casting of his parents (though Brian George is arguably white, depending upon how people classify Jews from the Middle East).

So clarify something for me here, if the Bashir family actors aren't white, what race are they? Middle Eastern (for lack of a more specific term) is an ethnicity not a race.

(and can we say how dumb it is to call it a Confederacy when it clearly isnt one. A Confederacy isn't a group of racist xenophobes)

We have not seen enough of the Confederacy government to make that kind of declaration. How is it "clearly" not one?

 

[cooleddie74]

Bud Ice: for when you want to cry all night and sigh in the darkness but need that extra kick.

 

[eschaton]

In an ideal system where everyone shares the same value system and overall culture perhaps, but that isn't the case with humanity at this stage so I don't think we are in a position for that to work. In Star Trek, humanity is depicted as a post-scarcity society and mono-cultural - everyone in general (with some small exceptions) has more-or-less the same value system. Of course even the concept and nature of work in such a society is different since it is no longer about providing for your needs.

Americans pretty clearly don't share the same values any longer. I'm not sure why it matters if we add more to the mix.

 

[fireproof78]

That is certainly one of the nicer things said about it.

Well, I don't drink alcohol so I'm afraid that's about the extent of my experience.

 

[Tuskin38]

Maybe Guinan is the one that named the Ent-D lounge '10 Forward' because of its location, and because she had a bar on 10 Forward

 

[Amaris]

Well, I don't drink alcohol so I'm afraid that's about the extent of my experience.

One of my best friends bought a 30 pack once, because it was on sale, thinking "it's beer, how bad could it be?!"
He had me try one, and he drank one. I made it two sips. He made it half a can. This was a man who could drink the cheapest beer around without caring one whit for the taste, and this beer actually made him stop. He couldn't finish it. He ended up giving it to his neighbor who, for some unfathomable reason, thought it tasted great.

I can still remember the taste of it 10 years later.

 

[eschaton]

So clarify something for me here, if the Bashir family actors aren't white, what race are they? Middle Eastern (for lack of a more specific term) is an ethnicity not a race.

Bashir's mother was played by a real-world Egyptian-born American academic (not a professional actor). His father was played by Brian George, who is of Iraqi Jewish descent.

IIRC, Alexander Siddig said up until the episode they were in, he always presumed he was playing someone really ethnically mixed/nothing in particular who happened to have a Arab last name. He had basically no personal connection with Sudanese culture at that time from what I understand, and was basically raised by his mother as a British dude.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Maybe Guinan is the one that named the Ent-D lounge '10 Forward' because of its location, and because she had a bar on 10 Forward

That's my take.

 

[Mike Doyle]

So the time spent in England turned the Picards permanently British?

They should replicate some duct tape to silence the Queen.

I read these two as if one followed from the other and didn’t realise you were talking about the Borg Queen for a couple of seconds.

 

[Mike Doyle]

Uh no? First Contact was predestination Paradox

Little Green Men

 

[cooleddie74]

Both of those examples are predestination paradoxes.

 

[UssGlenn]

Bashir's mother was played by a real-world Egyptian-born American academic (not a professional actor). His father was played by Brian George, who is of Iraqi Jewish descent.

IIRC, Alexander Siddig said up until the episode they were in, he always presumed he was playing someone really ethnically mixed/nothing in particular who happened to have a Arab last name. He had basically no personal connection with Sudanese culture at that time from what I understand, and was basically raised by his mother as a British dude.

I didn't ask you what country they were from, I asked you what race they were, since you seem to think they aren't white.

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

Why? She is younger here. Also the actress is the same age Whoopi was when she started on TNG.

Because again Time's Arrow she was older. So now she's younger in the future. Even if Picard didn't go back to 19th Century Earth, Guinan did and looks like Whoopi. She was happy to be asked to be on Star Trek Picard. Why not use her in more than just one episode? If you want to say El-Aurian's can alter their age anytime they want, fine but it seems like a waste of Whoopi's talent. I would love some of those line from recast Guinan said by Whoopi.

 

[eschaton]

I didn't ask you what country they were from, I asked you what race they were, since you seem to think they aren't white.

The U.S. has always been a bit fuzzy regarding the race of people from the Middle East TBH. Lots of people of Middle Eastern descent get to be viewed as white (Dr. Oz, Ralph Nader, etc.) while others do not.

 

[Amaris]

I didn't ask you what country they were from, I asked you what race they were, since you seem to think they aren't white.

His ethnicity would be Sudanese-Arab, as his father was Sudanese, and his mother was white. His full name is Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abdurrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi, though of course he goes by Alexander Siddig.

Sudanese Arab is an ethnicity, or if you prefer, a "race" of people who populate the nation of Sudan, located in northeastern Africa. If you prefer a little more vagueness in the traditional American style, they would be considered "middle eastern" by complexion.

 

[GNDN18]

I think the bar being named 10 Forward in the past annoyed me more than the Guinan thing (because at least you can play cute with the BTTF timeline change thing and try to explain it). the bar on the Enterprise was named that for it's location (10th deck, forward). Guinan naming the bar on Earth post-TNG is a fun wink, no issues. Her naming it that pre-TNG makes no sense if she doesn't remember the future at all. The heavy-handed "it's just an address" is silly, and beyond coincidence if she didn't specifically hunt that out as a joke. Not exactly the hill I'm going to die on, but it's annoying. Would have just preferred that Picard recognized that it was where Guinan's bar is while it had a different name in 2024...

Are we so sure that the bar on the Enterprise wasn’t named for the dive in LA? Ten Forward is not referenced until the second season. How do we know whether Picard had the lounge installed so his good friend would have a reason to be on board and provide her good counsel to the captain and his gallant crew? Could Guinan have requested that location? In other words,