Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
She will now.
The actress playing "young" Guinan did okay, the problem is she just didn't feel like Guinan, even in Time's Arrow she seemed very herself (and it seemed implied she was just visiting for some kind of research not setting up residence on Earth) but maybe a lot happened between 1890a and 2026 that changed her and she changed back between 2026 and 2384?
And her not recognizing Picard needed some in-show explanation. Maybe just Picard saying it before transporting out, "if the time line is truly changed, she may not recognize me." But you still have the problem with the punk on the bus.
The whole joke of that is he remembered the encounter with Spock. And for that to work the interaction has to take place the way we see it in the movie. If it's Confederate Kirk (and can we say how dumb it is to call it a Confederacy when it clearly isnt one. A Confederacy isn't a group of racist xenophobes) with a slave Spock they interaction happens differently if it all. So the show is trying to have its cake and eat it too.
The timechange thing I can kind of grasp. Bear with me....
The final change hasn't happened yet but it's the path we're on. Guinan doesn't recognize Picard. If they leave now ford the future they end up back in the Confederacy. So what ever starts the change has already happened, it's now just stopping the final events.
Back to the Future 2. Biff steals a book of sports statistics and then DeLorean and gives it to himself in 1955, making himself rich, corrupt and powerful in 1985.
Doc and Marty go back to 1955 toe stop this and even get there before Future Biff will. It this point 1985-A is still the destiny. They can't go to a point before the change will happen and then go a normal 1985. The events right now are destined. Biff will arrive and gives himself the book. They just now to make sure he doesn't get to keep it.
Picard and Co. are there before the point of no return, but the train is already on a course they don't wan, they need to get to the switch before the train does.
And her not recognizing Picard needed some in-show explanation. Maybe just Picard saying it before transporting out, "if the time line is truly changed, she may not recognize me." But you still have the problem with the punk on the bus.
The whole joke of that is he remembered the encounter with Spock. And for that to work the interaction has to take place the way we see it in the movie. If it's Confederate Kirk (and can we say how dumb it is to call it a Confederacy when it clearly isnt one. A Confederacy isn't a group of racist xenophobes) with a slave Spock they interaction happens differently if it all. So the show is trying to have its cake and eat it too.
The timechange thing I can kind of grasp. Bear with me....
The final change hasn't happened yet but it's the path we're on. Guinan doesn't recognize Picard. If they leave now ford the future they end up back in the Confederacy. So what ever starts the change has already happened, it's now just stopping the final events.
Back to the Future 2. Biff steals a book of sports statistics and then DeLorean and gives it to himself in 1955, making himself rich, corrupt and powerful in 1985.
Doc and Marty go back to 1955 toe stop this and even get there before Future Biff will. It this point 1985-A is still the destiny. They can't go to a point before the change will happen and then go a normal 1985. The events right now are destined. Biff will arrive and gives himself the book. They just now to make sure he doesn't get to keep it.
Picard and Co. are there before the point of no return, but the train is already on a course they don't wan, they need to get to the switch before the train does.
Recast Roberta Lincoln with an actress in her seventies and have her be in charge of Gary's old operation in New York City. Teri Garr's health is too poor for her to appear and even if it weren't she's never been too disposed to embracing her Trek past and talking about it.
And the DPRK isn’t Democratic. So what exactly is your point?
Robert Lansing is even less likely to appear.
They came from the Confederation future, so they're in the Confederation's past. Meaning no Good Picard went back in time to meet Guinan because Good Picard doesn't exist.
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/picard-showrunner-guinan-2024-jean-luc-star-trek
Basically, they're altering the Confederacy's timeline to turn it into the Federation timeline.
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They've separated families; and many when asked about the mental anguish caused have answered with - "Well, they chose to come here..." - does that make everyone who has a job with ICE evil, no. Some are doing what they can - but there are members who aptly fit very well the stereotype they chose to portray, and as someone who's seen an ICE raid in CA - no, it really wasn't all that overblown beyond the guard tasering Rios for speaking back.
Many DO see these detainees as sub human and under the Trump administration, many families were separated and SUPREME COURT RULINGS about keeping proper records and making sure such families were reunited in a given period were disregarded and ignored.
So yeah, sorry if I don't have a lot of sympathy if the ICE portrayal here was 'negative'. The actions of the organization as a whole haven't been very compassionate of even above board considering the court rulings they ignored - and for 4 years; that behavior was encouraged and rewarded by the top official of the U.S. government; and there are still many un that organization who still feel exactly the same way he did and are still a part of that organization.
History happened to her and history has not be kind to certain groups of people, she made it clear in the episode.
RLM is directly responsible for so much of the toxicity surrounding scifi/fantasy/cape media discussion online today.
Why? She is younger here. Also the actress is the same age Whoopi was when she started on TNG.
The whiplash of seeing young Guinan and all the questions surrounding her definitely coloured my perceptions of this episode the first time round. Found the whole thing so much more enjoyable this time around.
The final exchange between Picard and Guinan got a nice chuckle out of me.
Guinan: "If you aren't the real deal, she'll probably bite your eyelids off."
Picard: "...That's nice."
The final exchange between Picard and Guinan got a nice chuckle out of me.
Guinan: "If you aren't the real deal, she'll probably bite your eyelids off."
Picard: "...That's nice."
I like both Picard and Red Letter Media. Their one of the few good Youtube channels.
I think the bar being named 10 Forward in the past annoyed me more than the Guinan thing (because at least you can play cute with the BTTF timeline change thing and try to explain it). the bar on the Enterprise was named that for it's location (10th deck, forward). Guinan naming the bar on Earth post-TNG is a fun wink, no issues. Her naming it that pre-TNG makes no sense if she doesn't remember the future at all. The heavy-handed "it's just an address" is silly, and beyond coincidence if she didn't specifically hunt that out as a joke. Not exactly the hill I'm going to die on, but it's annoying. Would have just preferred that Picard recognized that it was where Guinan's bar is while it had a different name in 2024...
RLM makes some great content and being a MST3K/RT fan I like their rips on poor movies. Their more recent video criticizing Ep 2 and 3 of Picard I see where they are coming from but it seems like a case of them being harsher than necessary because it's kinda what is expected from them at this point. Though, I (and many others) liked their positive looks at TNG.
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I'll speak up -- I hated the recasting! Earlier I referred to it as among the worst creative decisions of Streaming Trek to date.
To be clear, I think the actress was GREAT, but given an impossible task. There's no comparing to the iconic Whoopi Goldberg, especially right after we just saw her return to the role for the first time in decades. But if this actress had been playing a new character (one of Guinan's kids perhaps?), I would be raving about her performance.
For me, this was akin to seeing Brent Spiner playing Data in the "Remembrance" dreams, and then some new 20-something playing Data in the final goodbye to Picard for "Et In Arcardia Ego." It would have lost all it's resonance.
I am surprised that the general interpretation is that Guinan's aging process only goes one way. My interpretation of what she said in "The Star Gazer" is that she could both age and de-age herself. I imagined as one set of short-lived friends died, she took herself back to youth and started again somewhere else. Rinse & repeat.
So that's something else I found particularly frustrating -- I agree they could not have digitally de-aged her, but the explanation was already introduced to make such de-aging unnecessary.
Not explicitly, but I always thought a central point of that episode was that the two men of color are immediately locked up, while the white woman is just as quickly rescued and cared for.
Was that literally the only time there was a Sisko/Bashir story? That's telling.
That depends -- is the someone else an ICE Agent?
(KIDDING!)
A
Amaris
Guest
It's dangerous to go alone. Take this:
Just... for the love of god don't drink any of it.
Bud Ice? I'll wipe my own self from the timeline to avoid drinking it.
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