Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[Trekker4747]

Personally I've always thought Time's Arrow was a stupid episode to begin with, so I'm not really so bothered with the "Why didn't she recognize Picard" thing. A part of me wishes they'd just drop all of the TNG things and just let the Picard series be itself on its own. I know that won't happen, but a girl can dream.

Crusher is here!!!!!

 

[zenophite]

That's why I liked Trek as well but that was when I had hope for the future. Now I like it more as a nice fantasy to what could have been.

Frankly, despite all the negatives, humanity is in a far better position to get there now that at any other period in history.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

Crusher is here!!!!!

Draggin in here hungover AF after the U of Houston game.

 

[Amaris]

Personally I've always thought Time's Arrow was a stupid episode to begin with, so I'm not really so bothered with the "Why didn't she recognize Picard" thing. A part of me wishes they'd just drop all of the TNG things and just let the Picard series be itself on its own. I know that won't happen, but a girl can dream.

But then we wouldn't get Jerry Hardin as Mark Twain.

 

[Awesome Possum]

This is a literal truth.

 

[gvn2fly]

tter of fact, there was a J-cut in one scene, where we hear her before we see her, and it truly sounded like Whoopi.

• On that note, I'm kind of astounded people are bothered by the recasting. "Time's Arrow" was 30 years ago... It's okay to recast. Let's try to avoid sounding like Star Wars fans, here, lol. The insistence that actors portray their characters from decades ago, and somehow still look like it's not decades later, I dunno, verges on some weird fan entitlement, but I realize I'm oversimplifying here.

I'm not really *bothered* by it as much as it just took me out of the episode, especially since we just saw Whoopi 3 episodes ago (that and wondering about Time's arrow, which has since been explained, her at the ten forward bar, and the different personality I didn't *See* as Guinan). I didn't think these things were *bad* it just took me out of the episode a bit and thus impacted my enjoyment a bit on the initial viewing.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

As a young person (ok 38 so maybe not really), I only consider it if I don't have USB battery backup to plug my phone into. Maybe this lady forgot hers.

I never touch e-readers for a novel. Doesn't have the same natural counter balance to a glass of wine like a book has.

Oh, we're perfectly capable of engaging in respectful discussions with people with whom we disagree with their legitimate opinions

Right: I'm correct
Left: I'm correct
Right: No I'm correct
Left: No I'm correct
Right: Agggghh you just can't debate with left anymore. They are like Jihadi zealots.

This stupid can't debate myth is everywhere now. Even after pages of debate.

(though Brian George is arguably white, depending upon how people classify Jews from the Middle East).

I don't think anyone would ever class him as white. Julian on the other hand I never even noticed was middle eastern when I was a kid.

He's going to end up with neither of them. After getting hot and bothered by her younger self in 2024, Picard's going to return home and take it to the next level with Guinan. And because she already lived through these events, Guinan knew all along thus her barely concealed glee in the season premiere.

Naw he is gonna have to "Back to the Future" it with his ancestor.

 

[gvn2fly]

I gave it a 5 because of the Guinan thing. It just annoyed me the whole episode. Recasting her younger is what bugged me and ignoring Time's Arrow. I read an interview with the writers saying the timeline change is why Time's Arrow didn't happen. Okay, but Picard and the gang went back to 2024, three days before the change happens so umm... I haven't read through the whole thread yet. Maybe someone made more sense of it than the episode did.

Time travel often doesn't make that much sense, but basically they have to *undo* a change in the timeline so the confederate future is the default future for now until they fix things. Thus, Time's Arrow never happened. Of course, this explanation may be contradicted by future episodes LOL

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

The redlettermedia guys are gonna be especially brutal with this episode. They love hate watching this show and The Ready Room. Poor Wil Wheaton.

 

[gvn2fly]

I don't even know why they even bothered to use Guinan again if you can't use Whoppi. They could have just had the Borg Queen know where the Watcher is and then Juranti and her beam PIcard over their to the Watcher.

That was my thought also since young Guinan didn't really seem to add anything to the plot, but maybe she will appear again.

 

[Amaris]

View attachment 26907
This is a literal truth.

Guinan was right on it, and I loved every second.

Picard: You must be patient.
Guinan: You know who has the luxury of patience here? Someone who looks like you and not like me. This world had more potential than I had ever imagined. But the hatred here? It never ends. It just swaps clothes. This century? It took off a hood and put on a suit. You say change is coming? Well, it's too damn slow. And the cost way too high. And being forced to watch it... hurts.
Picard: History's darkest moments can be a tipping point for change. There's still good here.
Guinan: Trust me, it ain't tipping soon.

 

[BillJ]

The redlettermedia guys are gonna be especially brutal with this episode.

Fuck them.

 

[cooleddie74]

Red Letter Media is overhyped YouTube pablum. They could think PIC is the best Trek series since TNG and I wouldn't be watching them.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

The timeline was changed in Picard's past. By going back in time to before the 15th they have caused the effects of the change (no Enterprise D crew to time travel) to appear early. This is because they have "locked in" the Confederacy timeline as the active one. Guinan would have "lost" her memories of Times Arrow the moment the La Serena appeared. The first time around she would have lost them when Q made the change on the 15th.

Yes, this was confirmed by Terry Matalas, so it the omission of Time's Arrow was on purpose.

 

[fireproof78]

The redlettermedia guys are gonna be especially brutal with this episode. They love hate watching this show and The Ready Room. Poor Wil Wheaton.

That's their problem.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I don't even know why they even bothered to use Guinan again if you can't use Whoppi. They could have just had the Borg Queen know where the Watcher is and then Juranti and her beam PIcard over their to the Watcher.

Because (a) I'm sure there will be a scene where Guinan remembers Picard once they reset the timeline, and (b) they don't have the $$$ to de-age Whoopi for that many scenes.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Because (a) I'm sure there will be a scene where Guinan remembers Picard once they reset the timeline, and (b) they don't have the $$$ to de-age Whoopi for that many scenes.

It also looks creepy and would distract from the scene.

 

[Amaris]

Because (a) I'm sure there will be a scene where Guinan remembers Picard once they reset the timeline, and (b) they don't have the $$$ to de-age Whoopi for that many scenes.

This. De-aging can work a little bit if enough money is poured into it, and the focus isn't so heavy on the person being de-aged. Those scenes with younger Guinan? That would have cost a lot of money, and most people would have noticed very quickly something was "off." You want people focusing on what the character is saying, not how weird they look because of some kind of "cheat."

The scene where they de-aged John DeLancie worked well enough for me because it was quick, Pat Stew was the main focus, and the surprise appearance was intriguing enough to hold further examination at bay. There's no way that would have worked in any extended conversation between two well loved people.

 

[Yistaan]

That was my thought also since young Guinan didn't really seem to add anything to the plot, but maybe she will appear again.

Maybe she's a backdoor for Guinan appearing in Strange New Worlds

 

[cooleddie74]

Paramount doesn't have Disney and Lucasfilm money to throw at convincing Deepfakes and de-aging scenes. They could do Q because it was just a few seconds long but a lengthy scene between Sir Patrick and Whoopi where she looks like she did in 1991? Yeah, not happening with this series.