Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[SG-17]

Yeah, they DON'T beat, starve or shoot ICE detainees. Nice try. Also, a nice copy of the facility that Obama set up for the detainees. Oh.... you think that was someone else who made those places?

lmao, you do know what franchise this is, right?

Anyone who defends ICE and ICE agents, in any capacity whatsoever have no business calling themselves Star Trek fans. There is plenty of fascist-wank sci-fi out there for you instead.

Well, at least people seem more than eager to rip their masks off in these days than keep in the shadows.

 

[Jayson1]

If you're being beaten by a man in uniform because you had the temerity to be the wrong color in the wrong location at the wrong time of day, how likely are you to care that they miss their girlfriend or love their son? One of the problems in modern media is all too often we see it from the position of authority rather than from the people being directly harmed by them.



Star Trek has no accommodation for fascism and oppression. There is no episode of Star Trek where the idea of "what if the fascists were right?" is seen as anything other than absurdity. Some views do not deserve their own platform. Fascism is one of those. The oppression of other human beings is, and always should be seen as, a detestable thing to be stopped.

You don't have to say what ICE is doing is right. It's okay like mentioned to have a view and explore it. What ICE does is indeed wrong. But this is fiction and not real life. You got to give even your bad guys some realistic depth or whats the point of even doing the story. The banality of evil isn't some brute being overtly evil. It's more subtle and doesn't even feel evil. Also if you got a character who is a asshole character it's better to explain why he is a asshole. Realistic character motivation is important.

Now with this guy you don't have much time. A example I think of them craming to much story into the show which means you got only got a few beats to give him a little depth. That's why I suggested the phone call with his son or maybe Rios and him like the same kind of food or something. Also the taser was to much. That only makes sense if you tased him while trying to arrest him. Just tasing him while in his cell is bad writing. Might as well make him a G'ould.

 

[Airmandan]

Some closeups of Q's newspaper from TrekCore. Either the prop department wasn't informed of when the season took place, Q was reading an old newspaper, or the scene took place further in the past.
https://blog.trekcore.com/2022/03/star-trek-picard-review-watcher/

Transparent aluminum? Nice

 

[zenophite]

Jeffery Dahmer was nice to his neighbors too, he still killed and ate people. Humans are complex, but it doesn't matter what random act of kindness you do if you're an active participate in the abuse of other humans.

There can some subjectivity to what might constitute abuse. Are we talking about immigration enforcement? Beating people up without provocation or cause is abuse. Using varying and appropriate degrees force against a belligerent, non-compliant or violent person is not. Or is it the position of some that abuse is simply denying people the ability to just do what they want like enter a country without legal permission? I'm sure some people think abuse is a simple as saying "no you cannot stay in the country".

 

[Airmandan]

apparently, people here have never entered another country illegally

 

[Mr Awe]

Am I?
i like the definition cited by wikipedia:



Big P progressives seem to get particularly incensed at people that don't share their views, even when those people attempt to debate matters in a respectful way.

Whoosh! Right over your head!

 

[Awesome Possum]

Am I?
i like the definition cited by wikipedia:



Big P progressives seem to get particularly incensed at people that don't share their views, even when those people attempt to debate matters in a respectful way.

There is no respectful way to defend the abuses of human rights.

There can some subjectivity to what might constitute abuse. Are we talking about immigration enforcement? Beating people up without provocation or cause is abuse. Using varying and appropriate degrees force against a belligerent, non-compliant or violent person is not. Or is it the position of some that abuse is simply denying people the ability to just do what they want like enter a country without legal permission? I'm sure some people think abuse is a simple as saying "no you cannot stay in the country".

Locking people in cages for crossing a line on a map is abuse.

 

[valkyrie013]

Some closeups of Q's newspaper from TrekCore. Either the prop department wasn't informed of when the season took place, Q was reading an old newspaper, or the scene took place further in the past.
https://blog.trekcore.com/2022/03/star-trek-picard-review-watcher/

That's an Elon Musk anti-Union dig .. Sheesh.
Nice on the counterfeit UHC cards and transparent aluminum.

 

[Tuskin38]

Also apparently a conflict between Iran and India.

 

[thribs]

Anything about Ireland in the newspaper?

 

[GNDN18]

Kirk goes in time kidnaps a couple of whale. Come back, tosses the carcasses at the Probe. Probe is stunned, lowers it's defenses and Kirk kills it.

That has a nice Mike W. Barr feel to it.

 

[Jayson1]

Right because the Confederation cares about whales and would solve the problem by doing the right thing.

Or maybe they'd just tell the probe to F off and use their massive firepower and destroy the probe and forgo the hassle of going back in time to find a frigging whale?

Kirk and Spock and the others didn't go back in time to save Whales because it was the right thing to do. They did it to save Earth and the Probe was powerful enough to make all Federation starships loose power. I believe it was Spock who figured they were trying to talk to whales and then Kirk had a crazy idea of where to go find some.

I could see Confederation KIrk ad Spock being in a situation like that. Close but different. Like I talked above about Spock being KIrk's slave. KIrk stealing the Klingon ship after the Captain killed his son and his son's slave Saavik. Then destroying his beloved Killerprise in the process and then getting it fixed for his trip home on Earth Controlled Vulcan.

 

[Photoman15]

lmao, you do know what franchise this is, right?

Anyone who defends ICE and ICE agents, in any capacity whatsoever have no business calling themselves Star Trek fans. There is plenty of fascist-wank sci-fi out there for you instead.

Well, at least people seem more than eager to rip their masks off in these days than keep in the shadows.

Who the F*** are you to tell me I have no business calling myself a Star Trek Fan? You're the fascist you claim I am.

 

[zenophite]

Locking people in cages for crossing a line on a map is abuse.

Would you consider forcibly removing someone that decided to camp in your (or my) back yard without permission to be abuse ?

 

[fireproof78]

apparently, people here have never entered another country illegally

I don't recommend it.

 

[thribs]

I think we are all disappointed the Watcher wasn't David Tennant.

 

[zenophite]

lmao, you do know what franchise this is, right?

Anyone who defends ICE and ICE agents, in any capacity whatsoever have no business calling themselves Star Trek fans. There is plenty of fascist-wank sci-fi out there for you instead.

Well, at least people seem more than eager to rip their masks off in these days than keep in the shadows.

This sort of gatekeeping seems to support my contention that modern day 'Progressives' aren't really interested (or perhaps even capable) of engaging in a dialogue with people that they disagree with without getting incensed.

 

[cooleddie74]

Transparent aluminum made the L.A. paper? Dr. Nichols is still flashing that swag.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Would you consider forcibly removing someone that decided to camp in your (or my) back yard without permission to be abuse ?

If they aren't harming anyone and just needed a place to sleep I wouldn't forcibly remove them. But someone coming to a country looking for a better life where there is plenty of space and opportunity is hardly comparable to someone sleeping in your backyard.

 

[Noname Given]

Well, I'm not as aware as those of you in the US, obviously.

It would seem my assumption that ICE is a fictional dystopian extra added to Homeland Security is incorrect, having just googled and seeing it's a thing.

As others have stated, ICE is a very real enforcement arm of the US immigration and Naturalization service, and what they were showing in the episode was rather tame compared to some of the reports. During the Donald Trump Administration, many of the female detainees we're actually given hysterectomies while they were held. There were also reports of detainees being given spoiled food, and detention centers that were so full, there was no real place for some of the detainees to actually sleep, and they were able to shower only once a week if at all.

So yeah the Detention Center that they showed Rios and the Doctor being held at were nothing like that. About the worst thing they did show was Rios getting tasered because he disobeyed a guard.