Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[zenophite]

Everything they showed are things actually happening. It would be more about one being uncomfortable with the state of things being depicted as happening, rather than that they are somehow fantastic or bent a certain way. If one is aware of the current political situation in the US, the show is accurately portraying that and letting you be the witness who chooses how to interpret it through your own filter.

At best it's selectively presented and doesn't show the multifaceted nature of the issue they are dealing with. In the case of the illegal immigration sub plot - they show a very stereotypical scenario. What isn't ever dealt with in any capacity is the question of why illegals and/or refugees are here or whether they have an intrinsic right to enter the country.

 

[Jayson1]

The timeline hasn't been changed yet... the event that affects the future is happening in 3 days. I feel like I'm watching a different show than a lot of people here?

Because their has been so much time travel in trek you can change the past by changing the future. If you change something in 2024 it changes the future which stops time travel to time periods before 2024. Unless people are protected from timeline changes somehow. Which made me think of something. If Q's powers are on the fritz then maybe Picard and other switch from who they are to their Confederation doubles since Q isn't keeping them protected from the timeline change.

 

[gweeps]

I don’t understand why Guinean doesn’t recognise Picard from Times Arrow though.

Because the 2024 they've gone back to isn't their 2024. It's the past from the alternate reality that Q merged them into as the Stargazer blew up.

 

[Tuskin38]

Because the 2024 they've gone back to isn't their 2024. It's the past from the alternate reality that Q merged them into as the Stargazer blew up.

Well Alternate Timeline. An alternate reality would be something like the Mirror Universe.

They're still in the same universe, Q just changed the past.

 

[Jayson1]

Stuff like this is the reason why temporal mechanics gives Janeway a headache.

That and the unrelenting guilt she must feel for her bloodthirsty vile murder of kind gentle Tuvix.

 

[Amaris]

At best it's selectively presented and doesn't show the multifaceted nature of the issue they are dealing with. In the case of the illegal immigration sub plot - they show a very stereotypical scenario. What isn't ever dealt with in any capacity is the question of why illegals and/or refugees are here or whether they have an intrinsic right to enter the country.

Immigrants being beaten by ICE isn't multi-faceted, and the reason it seems stereotypical is because this is how ICE behaves towards immigrants. Perhaps, and I say this as gently as I can, you should look into why you take issue with the presentation despite its accuracy, rather than the fact that these actions are being taken against human beings who have done no one harm? What is the other facet you wish to present? That they're here illegally? Star Trek speaks against that kind of thinking. The idea that no person is illegal just for existing is a part of the Star Trek future.

If you're upset that Star Trek makes ICE look bad, it's because ICE *is* bad, and Star Trek is showing you that to challenge your thinking.

 

[zenophite]

Art is not required to be "fair and balanced". Artists, be they musicians, writers, filmmakers, painters or whatever, have a point of view. Their art will project and promote that point of view. You're free not to like it,

I wasn't aware that my freedom to like or dislike it was ever in question so...thanks?

Similarly, I don't think I ever made the suggestion that 'art' must to reflect all points of view. At the same time I can lament that so much of entertainment is so singular in it's views. But even more that it comes across as so self-righteous when representing them.

 

[valkyrie013]

Gave it an 8.
Would have been a 9 if it wasn't so preachy and the cliche Rios subplot .. Owell.

Fist pumped when they went with the Aegis agent for the watcher!

 

[Nerys Myk]

I wasn't aware that my freedom to like or dislike it was ever in question so...thanks?

It wasn't

Similarly, I don't think I ever made the suggestion that 'art' must to reflect all points of view. At the same time I can lament that so much of entertainment is so singular in it's views. But even more that it comes across as so self-righteous when representing them.

Yes, art and artists tends to favor a certain certain POVs and reflects that. "Self-righteous" is in the eye of the beholder. Usually based on their POV.

 

[Yistaan]

So The showrunners have outright said that Picard's punk hadn't met Spock as in Voyage Home but somehow has interdimentional memory or something: Exclusive: How ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Brought Back spoiler From ‘The Voyage Home’ – TrekMovie.com

I'm wondering now, did the Eugenics Wars even happen in Picard's 2024? Because I would not be surprised if all that was somehow erased to make Picard's 2024 as close to ours as possible.

 

[Amaris]

So The showrunners have outright said that Picard's punk hadn't met Spock as in Voyage Home but somehow has interdimentional memory or something: Exclusive: How ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Brought Back spoiler From ‘The Voyage Home’ – TrekMovie.com

I'm wondering now, did the Eugenics Wars even happen in Picard's 2024? Because I would not be surprised if all that was somehow erased to make Picard's 2024 as close to ours as possible.

The theme of this season seems to really want to drive home the reality that what we're seeing may be a sci-fi scenario, but it closely mirrors our own, which is not a bad message considering how bad things have gotten even since DS9's days.

 

[DaveyNY]

I wasn't aware that my freedom to like or dislike it was ever in question so...thanks?

Similarly, I don't think I ever made the suggestion that 'art' must to reflect all points of view. At the same time I can lament that so much of entertainment is so singular in it's views. But even more that it comes across as so self-righteous when representing them.

Have you been paying attention to how the other side of that debate has been behaving for the last 200+ years or so?
The Conservative point of view is anything but compromising.

So The showrunners have outright said that Picard's punk hadn't met Spock as in Voyage Home but somehow has interdimentional memory or something: Exclusive: How ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Brought Back spoiler From ‘The Voyage Home’ – TrekMovie.com

I'm wondering now, did the Eugenics Wars even happen in Picard's 2024? Because I would not be surprised if all that was somehow erased to make Picard's 2024 as close to ours as possible.

Everything after the destruction of the Stargazer in episode one is a Q manifestation.

Nothing we've seen so far is going to be exactly like what we've known as the Trek Prime Timeline and is open to any interpretation one desires.

When this season ends, it's just going to essentially be another "Bobby in the shower" reveal with Q being Bobby.

 

[cooleddie74]

Art should reflect what the writer or artist or composer wants to portray. Nothing more, nothing less. Unless you're contracted to create a specific type of art for a designated audience nobody should tell you what you can or can't create with your voice, hands or other talents.

If it skews progressive on the political spectrum that ought to tell you that artists more often than not don't have a hard Right viewpoint on the world. Reactionary. Authoritarian. Those don't go well with art.

 

[Jayson1]

Immigrants being beaten by ICE isn't multi-faceted, and the reason it seems stereotypical is because this is how ICE behaves towards immigrants. Perhaps, and I say this as gently as I can, you should look into why you take issue with the presentation despite its accuracy, rather than the fact that these actions are being taken against human beings who have done no one harm? What is the other facet you wish to present? That they're here illegally? Star Trek speaks against that kind of thinking. The idea that no person is illegal just for existing is a part of the Star Trek future.

If you're upset that Star Trek makes ICE look bad, it's because ICE *is* bad, and Star Trek is showing you that to challenge your thinking.

That's still not a reason to write them like cartoon villains. Everyone has a point of view and everyone thinks they are a good person and has reasons for their behavior. Dukat was basically space Hitler but even he had different sides to him and some complexity.

 

[DaveyNY]

That's still not a reason to write them like cartoon villains. Everyone has a point of view and everyone thinks they are a good person and has reasons for their behavior. Dukat was basically space Hitler but even he had different sides to him and some complexity.

But he was still the Asshole Villain in the end and fortunately, got what he deserved.

 

[eschaton]

In the future all their parents got jiggy, and then they were born, which must have happened, or they wouldn't be there.

Again, that works if you hold to the strict causality loop issue - that you can't cause a paradox because whatever you did in the past already happened. But Trek has (usually) not done this, instead holding to the standard that there's some sort of "protection" around the current time travelers which stops them from being erased even if their current reality goes bye-bye.

There's absolutely no reason to think that includes past time travelers though.

 

[Vale]

That's still not a reason to write them like cartoon villains. Everyone has a point of view and everyone thinks they are a good person and has reasons for their behavior. Dukat was basically space Hitler but even he had different sides to him and some complexity.

Dukat was a key component of 35 episodes. That ICE officer was a secondary component of five minutes of one episode. He's not Dukat, he's the no-name background space-nazi Cardassian.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Because the 2024 they've gone back to isn't their 2024. It's the past from the alternate reality that Q merged them into as the Stargazer blew up.

This is their past.

It is 3 days before the point of divergence that distinguishes the Confederation timeline's dominance.

So it is most definitely "almost" their past.

Season 5 Federation Picard does not exist, so he never went back to 1893, and met young Guinin, so middle aged Guinin here has no idea who he is.

This means that Federation Sisko does not exist and never went back to 2024 either.

I suppose if Federation McCoy didn't save Edith Keeler, then Federation Kirk didn't have to kill her, and the Nazis still lost the second World War.

 

[Jayson1]

But he was still the Asshole Villain in the end and fortunately, got what he deserved.

Yes but Dukat was at his least interesting towards the end. Once he got in league with Paigh Wraiths he just wasn't as interesting. We also forget that Damar went form being a Dukat lackey brute to a actual hero and we know Garak was all sorts of complexity who did evil things in his past.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So The showrunners have outright said that Picard's punk hadn't met Spock as in Voyage Home but somehow has interdimentional memory or something: Exclusive: How ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Brought Back spoiler From ‘The Voyage Home’ – TrekMovie.com

Nailed it

I'm going with time ripple.