Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[jackoverfull]

Guinan called the Watcher a Supervisor. Supervisor was also the title given to Gary Seven in TOS

speaking of Gary seven: the transporter effect at the end did remind me a lot of his…

 

[Guy Gardener]

The confederation is possibly from a timeline without WWIII.

Maybe the whales survives if the oceans arn't turned into an atomic slow cooker?

 

[StarMan]

Oh yeah, the three day thing. Just what we needed - another ticking clock.

Also, I just realised my Yesterday's Enterprise theory was bunk; it was alt-reality Picard who went through that experience with her.

If the punk on the bus remembers Kirk and Spock, Guinan should remember Picard.

We have a winner.

 

[eschaton]

Are you kidding?

That was his entire scene.

The scene was there for us as fans. Same actor, presumably same character, same boombox, same song (with new lyrics), and he rubbed his neck.

That said, nothing occurred like "man, this reminds me of San Francisco in the 1980s!" He could be the same bus punk, but one from a universe where Kirk/Spock never went back in time, and he just rubbed his neck by coincidence (because it would remind us of that scene).

 

[Tuskin38]

speaking of Gary seven: the transporter effect at the end did remind me a lot of his…

Yep. They’ve clearly changed tactics in the last 60 years

 

[eschaton]

Q put them all in the bodies of their counterparts from the ConFederation.

Seven and company died on the Stargazer.

It blew the fuck up.

Under their own power, without help from Q, in the bodies they were wearing, they went back in time to 2024.

Their original bodies did not exist in the present, or was being used by their past selves in the past, moving forward to the point that the Borg Queen killed them.

It's possible that rather than "fixing time" that they are going to create a third timeline, then generates a favourable future, since they weren't there the first or second times around.

You can't ever make complete sense of time travel plots. You basically have two logical choices:

1. Time is all predetermined - since you already went back in time, you must do everything exactly the same in order for the future to occur.
2. Every change to the timeline causes butterflies which in turn spin off an alternate universe.

Trek has avoided the first completely, and the second for the most part. Instead we get "wibbly wobbly" to some degree.

But the fact remains, if the timeline was actually "fixed" already, they would not be back in time trying to un-fuck it, because they'd lack access to the Confederation ship which allowed them to travel back into time.

 

[Kelso]

The scene was there for us as fans. Same actor, presumably same character, same boombox, same song (with new lyrics), and he rubbed his neck.

That said, nothing occurred like "man, this reminds me of San Francisco in the 1980s!" He could be the same bus punk, but one from a universe where Kirk/Spock never went back in time, and he just rubbed his neck by coincidence (because it would remind us of that scene).

The joke was that was that the last time this happened he got neck pinched... so this time he politely apologized and turned the music down.

 

[eschaton]

Yeah, I just rewatched the "bus punk" scene 3 times. This is what happens:

• He's singing the lyrics
• Seven asks him to "stop that noise."
• He touches his neck
• He says "Yeah, okay, fine...I just like that song."
• He stops the music
• He apologizes.

That's it.

 

[eschaton]

The joke was that was that the last time this happened he got neck pinched... so this time he politely apologized and turned the music down.

Yeah, that's the joke. The joke is for us. The joke doesn't exist within universe.

 

[Tuskin38]

Trek has avoided the first completely,

Uh no? First Contact was predestination Paradox

 

[eschaton]

Uh no? First Contact was predestination Paradox

Damn, you're right. Can't believe I forgot that.

 

[Kevman7987]

This timey-wimey stuff would be so much more easily resolved if that weird British guy in the blue box would just show up and wave his little techno-wand around.

Besides, this is no time to argue about time. We don't have the time. By the time we reach a resolution to our discussion, the season will be over.

In the end it truly doesn't matter because I'm right and you're all wrong.

 

[Campe]

Yeah, that's the joke. The joke is for us. The joke doesn't exist within universe.

The suggestion is that he recalls. Yes, it’s an inside joke for us. But the joke doesn’t work if he doesn’t remember. Regardless, this is being overly analyzed. It’s a bit. At the end of the day, it’s designed to get a laugh from Trek fans. Worked for me!

 

[SG-17]

We knew their was going to be social commentary but this was CW level commentary right down to the cliche bully cop who has nothing better to do than harass Rios for making some smart remarks

Frankly the ICE cop in Picard was rather mellow compared to how real ones routinely beat, starve, and shoot the people they kidnap.

 

[eschaton]

The suggestion is that he recalls. Yes, it’s an inside joke for us. But the joke doesn’t work if he doesn’t remember.

Are you telling me that he's only been asked to turn down his boombox twice in 35 years?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Also, I just realised my Yesterday's Enterprise theory was bunk; it was alt-reality Picard who went through that experience with her.

Prime Data's head was buried in a cave, in the Alt timeline. Alt Picard might have never gaone back to the 19th century to meet young Gunin, but Prime Picard did.

Data's head could have been found at any point in the alt timeline, and triggered a similar series of alt-events as the the prime-events we know, even though Picard had been dead since season 3.

Hell, even the new Klingon masters of the Earth could go back in time and sort shit out, because they own the Earth in the past as well as the present and the future, and no one gets to fuck with their shit without getting a bat'leth to the face.

 

[Jayson1]

No she shouldn't have memories of "Time's Arrow" since the future in which that story took place no longer exists. The current past is the original timeline that "Time's Arrow" altered since that event never happen.

i.e. The alteration that changed the future had a tack-on effect of resetting the past to an earlier pre-"Time's Arrow" version.

I don't mind them using that explanation but it is something that should have been brought up in the episode. Since it wasn't we can only put this in the category of, fan theory.

 

[Kevman7987]

Are you telling me that he's only been asked to turn down his boombox twice in 35 years?

Probably. But not with the same exact wording as the time he got knocked out by a weird guy in a robe touching his neck.

 

[Campe]

Are you telling me that he's only been asked to turn down his boombox twice in 35 years?

Maybe. You’re overthinking it. Enjoy it for what it is and move on.

 

[Trekker4747]

If the punk on the bus remembers Kirk and Spock, Guinan should remember Picard.

Boom