Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x04 - "Watcher"

[Ghel]

In spite of the Guinan questions, I really, really liked this episode. Guinan not remembering Picard or even recognizing something as being "off" was probably the biggest suspension of disbelief, especially considering the Times Arrow meeting since this episode takes place before the time split. One line in which Picard mentions they've met in the past and Guinan not remembering it (indicating that the future Enterprise didn't make the trip) could have gone a long way to resolving this.
However, the geek in me *loved* the Kirk Thatcher bus scene and his reaction to being told to turn off the music. His "unconscious" hand to his neck when asked to turn off the music is priceless.
I also really appreciated the interactions between 7 and Raffi as well as those between the Borg queen and Jurati. BQ and Jurati felt like a chess match, while 7 and Raffi were snipping at each other as friends are likely to do in a stressful situation.
This episode (like all of Picard season 2 thus far) went by extremely quickly and left me wanting more. I'm very excited for what this season will bring...

 

[Lakenheath 72]

There were two references in this episode to "The City on the Edge of Forever" and one reference to the two-parter "Past Tense". And, we learned when Picard and company visit LA. They came in April and the Bell Riots happen in September.

I am not in the mood for preachy, overdramatic theatrics about how humanity is crapping on the planet. I am seeing on the news everyday a terrible war occurring in a far-away country and I saw a little of how politicians on one side attacked a nominee for SCOTUS using tactics from decades ago. So, I know we can be crappy and we can be selfish and that I know that racists have changed hoods for suits. (I got this reference in this episode; I wonder how many others got it.)

I am finding it difficult to get involved in this story. There are no stakes here for we know that things will return to normal, or as close to normal, as can be seen in what we know of what happened between 2400 and 3089 from the few clues that Discovery has given us. And the characters are not acting enough of fish-out-of-water as they should be. They are adapting very fast to 21st century culture.

In other words, STP still sucks for me. I am disappointed for I hoped that they would improve upon last year. There's not much far one can go when they are at the bottom of the barrel. This series seems to find a way to prove me wrong.

 

[Jayson1]

This episode was terrible. Maybe the 3rd worst after the final 2 ep's of last season. We knew their was going to be social commentary but this was CW level commentary right down to the cliche bully cop who has nothing better to do than harass Rios for making some smart remarks. As if he doesn't deal with people talking shit to him all day on his job I would imagine on a regular basis.

The environment stuff and homeless wasn't as bad but it was just quick remarks and DS9 already did the homeless issue far better in Past Tense. The Borg Queen seemed more snarky than sinister this week unlike last week.

The worst was Guinan. She should recognize Picard and she should look like Whoopi Goldberg. What's worst is she didn't even feel like the character at all. I thought for a minute we might have been dealing with ones of Guinan's kids. They just wrote her like a modern present day women. No mysteries feel about her or showing any of the kindness that makes people feel comfortable enough to want to talk about their problems with her. Also she is talking about how humans suck and getting emotional but wasn't she a few decades back hanging out with rich people and Mark Twain and basically enjoying herself which is weird because if she thinks people are bad today, they were much worst back then.

Q is back again and I m curious about what is wrong with him but I guess we are not going to see Q be funny on the show at all which feels like a waste. I did like the car chase. I liked Rios in the episode despite being stuck dealing with a cartoon baddie cop most of the episode. I also loved seeing the punk guy again on the bus. Nice to see he has gotten some manners. Now when someone asks him to turn his music down he does it without complaint.

 

[Trekker4747]

Having manners would be knowing not to play them loud music in the first place.

I do like the idea if this "Guinan" being one of her kids. Obviously not what they are going with, but it would have been a nice thing

 

[thribs]

Wasn’t really feeling this episode. The Watcher thing is just silly. Feels like something from Supernatural.
I was hoping it would be Ducane. He’s on Earth to monitor the Bell Riots temporal infraction and to fix the mistakes Sisko makes but is stranded when the timeline changes. They didn’t need to make something new.
The ending with Q was the only interesting part. The newspaper doesn’t make much sense since the space program would be well underway at this time. Missions to Jupiter and Saturn would have already happened.

 

[thribs]

The worst was Guinan. She should recognize Picard and she should look like Whoopi Goldberg. What's worst is she didn't even feel like the character at all. I thought for a minute we might have been dealing with ones of Guinan's kids. They just wrote her like a modern present day women. No mysteries feel about her or showing any of the kindness that makes people feel comfortable enough to want to talk about their problems with her. Also she is talking about how humans suck and getting emotional but wasn't she a few decades back hanging out with rich people and Mark Twain and basically enjoying herself which is weird because if she thinks people are bad today, they were much worst back then

I thought that as well but the timeline changed so Time’s Arrow wouldn’t have happened. I agree that her character was off. She wasn’t needed for this part.

 

[Jayson1]

Would have worked better if they went with Sarah Silverman's character even though Picard doesn't have a history with her.

 

[thribs]

Would have worked better if they went with Sarah Silverman's character even though Picard doesn't have a history with her.

Should have changed Seven with Paris this season.
Hence why Ducane makes sense. He knows Seven

 

[aj1981]

To me it made sense that Guinan didn't recognise Picard. The La Sirena travelled back from a 2401 where the timeline had already changed, hence no Enterprise-D and no Time's Arrow (or as we know it). Aside from a painting and a scant line of dialogue, we know very little about the C.S.S Worldrazer and nothing about her crew. Nothing seen so far suggests Data exists in this timeline, (with no United Earth / UFP the Soong's may have stuck to eugenics but I digress) and its unlikely the Worldrazer would have conducted a similar mission.

I viewed the Kirk Thatcher reference as more of an in-joke, not some detailed affirmation of The Voyage Home. These things don't annoy me, what does annoy me is a certain percentage of fans who try to present Star Trek as a being fully consistent and non-contradictory - its never been and never will be

 

[KennyB]

Well that was over way too quickly.

 

[SolarisOne]

2024!Guinan's actress ain't Whoopi, and it shows.

 

[KennyB]

Would have worked better if they went with Sarah Silverman's character even though Picard doesn't have a history with her.

No. It worked just as it was intended to. If you know you know.

 

[thribs]

No. It worked just as it was intended to. If you know you know.

Know what?

 

[Ghel]

2024!Guinan's actress ain't Whoopi, and it shows.

I actually give Picard (the show, not the character) some credit for this one. While digital de-aging is the trendier option, the Picard series chose to recast a younger Guinan and assumed audiences were smart enough/willing to suspend disbelief. I don't necessarily have a problem with de-aging for small show moments, but when the part is meatier such has having Guinan in a substantial portion of this episode and potentially this season, it makes sense to me to give the role to an actor who doesn't have to act through a digital mask.

 

[Tosk]

I prefer recasting too for instances like this. But it does create a bigger potential hiccup when the character is acting so "out of character" at the same time as being recast. It can make it harder to accept for some people.

 

[SolarisOne]

I prefer recasting too for instances like this. But it does create a bigger potential hiccup when the character is acting so "out of character" at the same time as being recast. It can make it harder to accept for some people.

Bingo. She was rather OOC.

 

[thribs]

It’s annoying they haven’t wrapped this already. Not a fan of the 2024 stuff. Hopefully the next one is the last

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Ooookay... This was like a filler episode to me.

Agnes/ BQ worked best. "Poetry, dear!"

I actually liked the punk/ callback to TVH, with a nice twist of him being polite, lol.

Picard scenes - with Jurati, Guinan etc - seemed drawn out.
The recast does NOT work for me. Different body type, movement, mannerisms, accent... sure I could fanwank all that, but I don't want to.

Stil not interested in Rios' epic romance plot.

I assume we're supposed to find Rffi and Seven's bickering funny or charming, but it doesn't work for me. Raffi was one of my favorites; now I rooted for Seven to throw her out of the car.

I hate to go down to 7, but here we are...

 

[thribs]

Q reminded me of the Merovigian at the end.

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[Mr. Laser Beam]

2024!Guinan's actress ain't Whoopi, and it shows.

Doesn't make sense they recast Guinan for 2024 but not 2401.

Either get Whoopi for both times or neither.

I was hoping it would be Ducane. He’s on Earth to monitor the Bell Riots temporal infraction and to fix the mistakes Sisko makes but is stranded when the timeline changes. They didn’t need to make something new

So is Jay Karnes not in this episode, then?

We know he turns up at some point, since he's in the teaser...