Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x11 - "Rosetta"

[Lord Garth]

I think the trailers are misleading. Just like the original trailer for Season 4 before it started was misleading. People thought, from the trailer, it would be non-stop action and it wasn't. It even had me fooled. Going by the first episode, I thought they were going to emulate the Kelvin Films this season and then it turned to be just that episode. It's more likely that if you want to have a sense of how DSC Season 4 will end, you have to look at TMP. Not the particular specifics, but the story beats.

Where Vance and Tilly are, Starfleet Command or Starfleet Academy, is like Earth in TMP. Book's world, Kwejan (I know I misspelled that), is like Epsilon IX. Book's world, like the Epsilon station, was destroyed. Starfleet Command (or Academy or whatever) will be under attack, but not destroyed. It'll be a more action-packed version of when V'Ger launched orbiting probes around Earth.

Burnham and Discovery won't destroy Species 10C. They'll reason with Species 10C. And Tarka will try is hardest to fuck that up. Book is the swing person. So is Ndoye to a lesser extent.

You can quote me on this in a week-and-a-half. The season finale won't be "ohmyGodsuperrushed!!!!" Season 3 did that. Season 2 did that. This will be more like Season 1 where its finale hung out at the Orion Embassy for a lot of it, before coming up with a solution to the Klingon War that didn't involve Discovery blowing everything up.

They'll find a way to reach out to Species 10C before anything happens. Why? Because I get the impression that the Federation -- especially a weakened 32nd Century Federation -- wouldn't stand a chance against Species 10C. So the solution has to be something else by default.

Season 4 is going to stick to its writing style from start to finish. Whether or not that's a good thing depends on your point of view. From mine, it's good. It'll just be less stretched out at the end than these few episodes have been.

 

[cultcross]

I'm definitely of the demographic that likes less "pew pew" and appreciates efforts in that direction. That said, this episode should have been right in my ball park.

Sadly I just found it rather dull and uninteresting.

Exactly how I felt this week. It's Star Trek does Arrival, I should have loved it. How we communicate with a species nothing like us? That's the sort of thing that I want modern Trek to do instead of galaxy threatening disasters. Pheromonal communication is a good idea, and some sort of huge creatures from a gas giant should be fascinating.

But they managed to make the whole thing boring, the problems are fixed too quickly by tapping on buttons that appear in mid air, and far too much of the episode is people standing around with awkward blocking talking about their feelings. The ticking clock they've tacked on is absurd and the scene at the beginning that moved at glacial pace while emphasizing in dialogue how urgent everything was.... sigh. The antagonists simply exist to be wrong, and Book is altogether too cheerful for what should be a really emotional rollercoaster for him.

This was a case of good ideas wasted in bad execution.

Reno was nice to see again, the characters they've focused on this season are the unfalteringly earnest ones and I miss the show's grasp of humor from earlier seasons. I mostly miss Tilly.

 

[ananta]

Reno was nice to see again, the characters they've focused on this season are the unfalteringly earnest ones and I miss the show's grasp of humor from earlier seasons. I mostly miss Tilly.

That’s one of the reasons I still miss Georgiou. The show really benefited from having at least one chaotic/cynical character who would roll their eyes and make a snarky comment when the rest of the crew got a little too earnest in their emoting. It helped balance things out and it helper that Michelle Yeoh was a total scene stealer.

 

[Mr Awe]

The number of episodes and the skill of the scriptwriters are not the problem here. The main problem has been, from the beginning of the series, trying to make a series that is tailored for binge watching while cramming in a weekly broadcast cycle of one episode at a time. Unfortunately here you can't have your cake and eat it regardless of how you distribute the accents.

I don't know, they've been able to do it with other series effectively. Game of Thrones, The Expanse. It's doable but it takes more skill and effort.

 

[Mr Awe]

Book is altogether too cheerful for what should be a really emotional rollercoaster for him.

Ah, that's it! There was something bugging me about Book. I kept vacillating between not buying him betraying Michael like that and realizing that shoot he lost his entire planet so maybe he would betray Michael to prevent it from happening again.

But something felt off. It should be a huge emotional rollercoaster. I guy who lost his planet AND who is betraying his love. That's not a good spot to be in. They've totally botched Booker's reaction to his situation.

I agree with your observation that they have some good ideas but flubbed the execution.

 

[Mr Awe]

It's more likely that if you want to have a sense of how DSC Season 4 will end, you have to look at TMP. Not the particular specifics, but the story beats.

That's interesting because I had a similar reaction to Picard's premiere, but more that it had audio and filming cues taken from TMP. Not so much the story beats other than a large phenomenon appearing. But some of the music and shots reminded me of TMP.

 

[fireproof78]

Ah, that's it! There was something bugging me about Book. I kept vacillating between not buying him betraying Michael like that and realizing that shoot he lost his entire planet so maybe he would betray Michael to prevent it from happening again.

But something felt off. It should be a huge emotional rollercoaster. I guy who lost his planet AND who is betraying his love. That's not a good spot to be in. They've totally botched Booker's reaction to his situation.

I agree with your observation that they have some good ideas but flubbed the execution.

Grief doesn't always present like that.

 

[Mr Awe]

Grief doesn't always present like that.

It's not even consistent with how Book reacted earlier in the season!

 

[fireproof78]

It's not even consistent with how Book reacted earlier in the season!

Because, at least in my experience, grief is not a consistent presentation.

 

[cultcross]

It's not just grief, he's betraying Michael, actively working against her, infiltrating her ship to undermine her mission and taking a huge fate-of-the-galaxy gamble into the bargain. But he's all "la la la" normal. Fine, any feeling could present any which way, but that's not generally how acting works. He's in a position where his divided loyalties should be making this all really hard for him, but there's no sign of that. It's like he's playing a video game.

 

[fireproof78]

It's not just grief, he's betraying Michael, actively working against her, infiltrating her ship to undermine her mission and taking a huge fate-of-the-galaxy gamble into the bargain. But he's all "la la la" normal. Fine, any feeling could present any which way, but that's not generally how acting works. He's in a position where his divided loyalties should be making this all really hard for him, but there's no sign of that. It's like he's playing a video game.

Which is why it makes sense, at least to me. He has rationalized his guilt and basically created his own little dissociation from reality in order to cope. Whatever emotions of conflict he has he sublimates in to his work and his choices.

A bit Freudian for my tastes but that's how I read it.

 

[Mr Awe]

Which is why it makes sense, at least to me. He has rationalized his guilt and basically created his own little dissociation from reality in order to cope. Whatever emotions of conflict he has he sublimates in to his work and his choices.

A bit Freudian for my tastes but that's how I read it.

Well, that's a handy rationalization for it, but it's not realistic.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, that's a handy rationalization for it, but it's not realistic.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Akiraprise]

7/10

Star Trek Drag-on-overy strikes again. This is honestly the first Star Trek show that I have pretty much lost interest in. Ever. I could never find out what 10-C is or what happens and it wouldn't really bother me. I find myself playing on my phone while it plays in the background. It's Star Trek however, I feel it is my duty to follow it to the end, and I so want it to be good. But some weeks it's a slog.

So much talk about feelings every week. I know I am supposed to care about these characters but they could off Saru or Burnham and it might get an eyebrow raise from me. We listen to Burnham give speeches every time they go to warp speed. Then we watch everyone get all misty eyed over one of the speeches given. This week the emotion dust just happens to go through the EV suits. But only the emotion dust and they can then filter that out at will through some programmable matter magic... I'll stop.

It wasn't all bad. They gave Detmer something meaty to do this week at least. The visuals are cool. Reno finally came back.The season arc did move forward a bit.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I don't know, they've been able to do it with other series effectively. Game of Thrones, The Expanse. It's doable but it takes more skill and effort.

The GOT writers were fine while they had GRRM to poach from. The minute they ran out of material, it all turned into the equivalent of suffering from food poisoning on a 6 hour bus ride through the vietnamese country side in the height of summer.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I'm fed up. Tired. Tired of being told the Trek series I like isn't good enough. Discovery can do no right, no matter what.

Maybe relax then and stop having to argue every little criticism of Discovery. Honestly like every little complaint is followed up by you. If someone said the captains chair would look better in green you would take everyone down a 10 page rabbit hole about how wrong the poster was.

 

[PiotrB]

I don't know, they've been able to do it with other series effectively. Game of Thrones, The Expanse. It's doable but it takes more skill and effort.

GoT and Expanse were always series designed to air in weekly episodes so these are poor examples. Besides, besides the fact that they were adaptations of books, they had a lot of episodes in which not much happened except rearranging figures on a chessboard while waiting for the finale, so I don't know where you see the existence of this eaten cake.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe relax then and stop having to argue every little criticism of Discovery. Honestly like every little complaint is followed up by you. If someone said the captains chair would look better in green you would take everyone down a 10 page rabbit hole about how wrong the poster was.

Duly noted.

 

[eschaton]

GoT and Expanse were always series designed to air in weekly episodes so these are poor examples. Besides, besides the fact that they were adaptations of books, they had a lot of episodes in which not much happened except rearranging figures on a chessboard while waiting for the finale, so I don't know where you see the existence of this eaten cake.

IMHO the bold is part of why the shows worked so well. They committed to full serialization, without individual episodes having definable three-act structures. The time had to be filled up with something though, which was largely exploring the characters with maybe 1-2 plot points moving forward each episode).

Discovery abandoned its experiment with full serialization after Season 1, meaning every episode and the season as a whole must have an arc. This leads to a bit of a consistent "overplotting" to the detriment of character. The show has gotten much better with character moments overall, but it still seems averse to the idea of spending entire episodes solely dedicated to an examination of character.

 

[Mr Awe]

GoT and Expanse were always series designed to air in weekly episodes so these are poor examples. Besides, besides the fact that they were adaptations of books, they had a lot of episodes in which not much happened except rearranging figures on a chessboard while waiting for the finale, so I don't know where you see the existence of this eaten cake.

The point is it can be done. You can have a weekly series that are highly serialized. Each story can stand on it's own enough to be enjoyable yet be part of a cohesive, serialized story. That was the point under discussion.

Yes, they were based on books and I'm sure it helps. But it can be done and that's the point. It just takes more skill and effort to do so.