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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x07 - "…But to Connect"

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Just a thought--in Tarka's first appearance, he was so cocky that he felt he could basically recreate a mini version of the anomaly on Discovery itself. Now, it's stated that the anomaly is so far beyond his power and knowhow and that of the Fed's, and Tarka needs to steal a power source from it to jump universes.

It may not be a contradiction per se especially when technobabble is added in, but the sudden change in tone is sort of jarring.
 
The more ‪‪I think about Tarka’s story, the more skeptical ‪‪I am of it. ‪‪I was never fully sold, but when ‪‪I really examine what he said, it doesn’t really add up.

Firstly, Tarka’s a great manipulator. If he would have just come in and said what he wanted to do in the previous appearance in The Examples I think Stamets would’ve resisted, but instead he played on Stamets insecurity over not being the smartest one in the room, and goaded and pushed his buttons until he was willing to as far as Tarka wanted in the DMA controller recreation experiment.

He demonstrated an adeptness in behaving and saying exaclty what someone needs or wants to hear to achieve his goals, and that’s what he’s done with Book. ‪‪I could certainly be wrong, Tarka could be on the up and up, but when ‪‪I really think about it, he spoke with a frank dirision and disgust toward his home world of Risa.

Ruon Tarka said:
There's nothing quite like the rush of proving a theory right. I remember my first time. I was five years old. I atomized a live caracal. All anyone could do was complain about how messy it was.

I was never understood on Risa. The "pleasure planet". I was surrounded by idiots.

That doesn’t sound like someone who wants desperately to escape to a world with no war, and at peace, it in fact sounds like it would be mind numbingly boring to him. Someone who loathes the idea of a pleasure planet seeking out a serene and peaceful paradise seems utterly self-contradictory, and it just so happens to be a story that Book responded to? And this is exactly why Starfleet kept knowledge of the Mirror Universe secret for so long, as Sarek put it so well:

Sarek said:
What would you do if you thought that your dead wife, your lost child, your murdered parents, all might be alive on the other side and that a technology exists for you to see them again?

Tarka’s given Book exactly the carrot he needed to get him to pilot the next generation spore drive, and he’s not a reliable narrator.

‪‪He could very well be on the level, but it feels like he’s just conning everyone.

*edited to correct misattribution of quote from Sarek to Admiral Cornwell
 
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The more ‪‪I think about Tarka’s story, the more skeptical ‪‪I am of it. ‪‪I was never fully sold, but when ‪‪I really examine what he said, it doesn’t really add up.

Firstly, Tarka’s a great manipulator. If he would have just come in and said what he wanted to do in the previous appearance in The Examples I think Stamets would’ve resisted, but instead he played on Stamets insecurity over not being the smartest one in the room, and goaded and pushed his buttons until he was willing to as far as Tarka wanted in the DMA controller recreation experiment.

He demonstrated an adeptness in behaving and saying exaclty what someone needs or wants to hear to achieve his goals, and that’s what he’s done with Book. ‪‪I could certainly be wrong, Tarka could be on the up and up, but when ‪‪I really think about it, he spoke with a frank dirision and disgust toward his home world of Risa.



That doesn’t sound like someone who wants desperately to escape to a world with no war, and at peace, it in fact sounds like it would be mind numbingly boring to him. Someone who loathes the idea of a pleasure planet seeking out a serene and peaceful paradise seems utterly self-contradictory, and it just so happens to be a story that Book responded to? And this is exactly why Starfleet kept knowledge of the Mirror Universe secret for so long, as Cornwell put it so well:



Tarka’s given Book exactly the carrot he needed to get him to pilot the next generation spore drive, and he’s not a reliable narrator.

‪‪He could very well be on the level, but it feels like he’s just conning everyone.
Tarka was sent to Discovery with apparently high recommendations from Starfleet Command. Seems even in the 32nd century they do literally no screenings or basic background research before letting someone in the vicinity of their highest ranks.
 
Tarka was sent to Discovery with apparently high recommendations from Starfleet Command. Seems even in the 32nd century they do literally no screenings or basic background research before letting someone in the vicinity of their highest ranks.

‪‪To me it feels less like “they didn’t look into it,” and more likely that he was just highly intelligent, and proved useful, so they looked past what they didn’t want to see.

The Federation took the Emerald Chain’s scientists after it fell, as seen with Tarka and Aurellio, giving them a chance to rise up to the top of the ranks of their scientific research community, not unlike Operation Paperclip in the U.S. recruiting 1,600+ Nazi scientists after WWII.
 
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‪‪To me it feels less like “they didn’t look into it,” and more likely that he was just highly intelligent, and proved useful, so they looked past what they didn’t want to see.

The Federation took the Emerald Chain’s scientists after it fell, as seen with Tarka and Aurellio, gaving them a chance to rise up to the top of the ranks of their scientific research community, not unlike Operation Paperclip in the U.S. recruiting 1,600+ Nazi scientists after WWII.
Tarka: Hail Hydra
Book: What?
Tarka: Never mind, private joke.
 
and now we hear about the President of United Earth. We're starting to have too many presidents! C'mon, DIS writers -- let's mix things up a bit! Let's add in some Prime Ministers

Earth probably has both. ;)

I mean, we know from this episode that Earth's head of state is the President. In the Demons/Terra Prime arc on ENT, we meet an Earth government official (Nathan Samuels) who is a Minister. So in all likelihood Earth is a parliamentary republic, with a President as head of state and Prime Minister as head of government.

In the novelverse, in fact, this is exactly the case.
 
Earth probably has both. ;)

I mean, we know from this episode that Earth's head of state is the President. In the Demons/Terra Prime arc on ENT, we meet an Earth government official (Nathan Samuels) who is a Minister. So in all likelihood Earth is a parliamentary republic, with a President as head of state and Prime Minister as head of government.

In the novelverse, in fact, this is exactly the case.

Yep! Although of course, it's been a thousand years since the ENT era -- it's entirely possible United Earth had a change of constitutions in the meantime.

The UFP President's line to the U.E. representative seemed to imply that the U.E. President is more than a ceremonial position, but of course U.E. could have a semi-presidential system like France, or a system like Finland's where the president broadly controls foreign relations while the prime minister broadly controls domestic policy. Or, hell, for all we know U.E. could use the Swiss model, with a Federal Council that collectively serves as both head of state and head of government, and a President who is just the Federal Councillor serving a rotating term as presiding officer of the Federal Council that year. Lots of possibilities!
 
First 10 on quite awhile... Season has been ho hum for quite a few episodes, even a couple garbage ones but this.. Was excellent.

Last year, even this year's season, the discovery and her crew have been .. Superman.. Some one from outside reminding others of the best they could be. From a time when the federation were full of hope.
All plots this episode were great, council, zora, absolutely love Kovich.. Cronenberg brings that gravitas.
It's been a great season so far. I'm glad they're exploring the positive and competent aspects of the crew and its role in this future.

Isn't the spore drive capable of cross universe travel like they did at the end of season 1 with the mirror? ?? Why does douche scientist need the dma power source of the shrooms can get him home?
Good question. It might be a case of end-to-start writing again, but it might be something else since he's obviously untrustworthy. We'll have to see once all is said and done.

It's strange to think that, as of the middle of the fourth season, there's a good chance we're probably about half-way through Discovery. I think we've now reached the second half of the show.

Time flies.
It's been a long road.

Just a thought--in Tarka's first appearance, he was so cocky that he felt he could basically recreate a mini version of the anomaly on Discovery itself. Now, it's stated that the anomaly is so far beyond his power and knowhow and that of the Fed's, and Tarka needs to steal a power source from it to jump universes.

It may not be a contradiction per se especially when technobabble is added in, but the sudden change in tone is sort of jarring.
He seems to be conning Book, so I'm not sure we can take anything he's said at face value. Neither his goals nor his motivations can be trusted. Some of it may end up being true (at least in parts), but I suspect this was at least a con to get Book to pilot the Spore Drive for him using his device on Book's ship. He needed Book, because they don't have any other Navigators yet. Everything else between them is pretense for that.

I really can't stand him (the actor's doing a fine job, though). I'm concerned that someone wearing so many "I'm just this side of being a bad guy" flags isn't throwing the entire crew into at least Yellow Alert around him during their personal interactions. He's well beyond Stamet's grouchy cockiness. I guess they've finally healed from Lorca, but it does make the crew seem a bit dim/naive more than I suspect it's meant to. I appreciate the implication that Starfleet is adopting shady figures Operation-Paperclip style, but I'd expect some on the crew to be more wary than just worried that he isn't being sufficiently careful. Just because Starfleet is trusting him doesn't mean Discovery should since they come from a different perspective; after all, that's one of the useful differences the show has in the new premise.

Zora indicated she knew they were powerful based on knowing the species. That's the reason she didn't reveal the coordinates immediately. She knows something about them.
That's what I thought, too, but after seeing the responses here I rewatched the scene and the wording is clear in retrospect but was subtly misleading for me. I immediately thought they were setting up a reveal that the aliens responsible are the Kelvans, but now I'm less certain. SF wouldn't have known about them yet when Discovery left, but I'm sure they've updated their databases by now and Zora would be aware of them (if she didn't already have knowledge as the Sphere). The fact that they've brought up the galactic barrier also makes me wonder if they're going to examine that concept further. Why is it there? Are the ones responsible for the DMA also responsible for the barrier? Is the milky way inside of a petri dish? ;)

I'm still not convinced that there's any basis to assume it's not a natural phenomena, but I'm pretty sure we're supposed to accept the premise even though there's no logic to it; I doubt they're using it as a red herring, but it seems like a missed opportunity making it be a potential adversary (intentionally or accidental).

The constant questions around here about the Klingons do make me wonder... could they be connected to this? Has the show been keeping quiet about them hoping we don't ask until the reveal? Seems very unlikely to me, but it's also the sort of thing earlier seasons of the show would have thought was terribly clever so I can't completely rule out such a silly idea. I definitely hope not.

I do wonder about their fate. Given how much this show has developed the idea that Klingons were deeply into time travel research, I'm concerned they were specifically targeted and as a result were a casualty of the Temporal Cold War. That could be an interesting concept, and one that Burnham might wrestle with given her history with them.
 
The constant questions around here about the Klingons do make me wonder... could they be connected to this? Has the show been keeping quiet about them hoping we don't ask until the reveal? Seems very unlikely to me, but it's also the sort of thing earlier seasons of the show would have thought was terribly clever so I can't completely rule out such a silly idea. I definitely hope not.

I definitely think the Klingons are involved. Their conspicuous absence is deafening.
 
Just saw this last night. Mind, blown.

IMO, seems like all of the spins have at least one thing that is done that had not been done in the previous series. It is either in universe or out, but but becomes that series’ “signature” move. It could be in universe thing or out of universe. On TNG, it was a Klingon as part of the bridge crew, Voy had the the first woman captain as a series lead. DS9 had the first Black commanding officer it’s series lead, and first show NOT set on a ship. ENT was first series to use real newsreel footage in the cold opening , also first to present opening customized theme and credits.

I think, at lease up to now, that accepting the ship’s computer as a sentient being and then making it a member of Starfleet, may be remembered as DSC’s signature move. This is the kind of “bizarre,” out there, and brilliant move that made me fall in love with sci-fi. This has been kind of teased by several episodes in past series’ but DSC is the first to FULLY go there, and apparently, stay there.

It is so in keeping with who DSC has been since it’s inception, and is a resounding affirmation of The Great Bird’s original vision of Infinite Diversity In Infinite Combinations. Every sentient life is important and has value. I know there were other things going on in the episode, but I fucking loved Zara’s storyline..
 
It is so in keeping with who DSC has been since it’s inception, and is a resounding affirmation of The Great Bird’s original vision of Infinite Diversity In Infinite Combinations. Every sentient life is important and has value. I know there were other things going on in the episode, but I fucking loved Zara’s storyline..
I think the Sphere storyline has been the most simultaneously brilliant and underused plot in the entire show.
 
I’m glad you cleared that up for you.
What about Eli the 32nd century lie detector?How did Tarka get around a machine specifically designed for dealing with people like him?
Most likely by manipulating the conversation beforehand to avoid getting asked those kind of questions by an AI.
He is obviously quite good at manipulating people.
One could postulate that he has never been questioned by Kovich who would see right through him immediately.
 
So Burnham is facing her own Georgiou-Moment . Book is a wanted criminal now and in the end she must take him into custody and hand over to fed authorities.
 
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