Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x05 - "The Examples"

[nic3636]

For me, there's no change Disco needs to make more desperately than to tip towards episodic storytelling, because they are so much better at that than they are at serialized stories.

This, at the end of the day you have to play to your strengths, whatever that may be. No sense in continuing doing something you aren't good at.

This is untrue. Bryan Fuller wanted him to just be a normal, if militaristic, Starfleet Captain. The trip to the MU was planned by him, but it would have happened much earlier in the season. Once Harberts and Berg took over, they got to wondering "why" Lorca was militaristic, and decided to make him from the MU.

Wow, I thought that was planned from the beginning. That's actually really impressive it was a mid-season shift because it fits perfectly all the way back to the first episode.

 

[fireproof78]

Disco writers, it's still not too late to retcon Kovich into being Odo...

Please, no.

Lorca being a cynical, angry Starfleet Captain from our universe would have been infinitely more interesting.

I think more of a PTSD driven, hard ass would have been more interesting. He takes the Klingon War personally, possibly due to being from a more military background, like Stiles was, and him struggling similarly to Michael with resentment towards the Klingons, but him ending up being more consumed by it than her willingness to cooperate.

 

[cooleddie74]

Either way it would have been better than a Mirror Universe impostor working undercover to use Discovery to get back to his universe. That was such a fizzle of a concept that it robbed Lorca of so much of what made him fun to watch.

 

[fireproof78]

Either way it would have been better than a Mirror Universe impostor working undercover to use Discovery to get back to his universe. That was such a fizzle of a concept that it robbed Lorca of so much of what made him fun to watch.

He was still incredibly fun to watch. I loved his brutality, and how he viewed Georgiou informed so much of his character. Obviously he could have been more interesting from the point of view of being a damaged PU Captain Lorca, but his MU origins didn't take anything away.

Mileage, etc.

 

[Yistaan]

Either way it would have been better than a Mirror Universe impostor working undercover to use Discovery to get back to his universe. That was such a fizzle of a concept that it robbed Lorca of so much of what made him fun to watch.

If the writers had done what you said, then by the next season Lorca would just be revealed to be yet another member of Section 31. Which I don't think would necessarily have been much better than the Mirror Universe thing.

 

[cooleddie74]

Given how bad some of their writing is, probably. They were going to screw up Lorca's character no matter what happened.

 

[fireproof78]

If the writers had done what you said, then by the next season Lorca would just be revealed to be yet another member of Section 31. Which I don't think would necessarily have been much better than the Mirror Universe thing.

The way people react to Section 31 you would think Section 31 was real and had killed all of your pets.

Honestly, that could have been interesting too in Season 2, with Section 31 trying to get in to the MU to gather intelligence about a possible threat and Lorca being recruited to do so.

 

[brandnewfan]

Since season 3, I just find I care less and less about this crew or their story.

Season 1 and 2 were much more engaging than what's currently coming out.

 

[SpaceTurkey]

This was the first episode of the season I've actually liked. The prison stuff was alright, but I was way more into the anomaly investigation and the Tarka vs Stamets stuff. Also I'm glad Culber's resurrection was brought up again. That would obviously be a big deal to the person for the rest of their lives and no doubt would change them. I do find it funny though that Kovich tells him what a big deal it is, when they literally now have another resurrected person on Discovery, Gray Tal. What are the odds of that? I assume they will bond over their shared experience.

 

[Yistaan]

I do find it funny though that Kovich tells him what a big deal it is, when they literally now have another resurrected person on Discovery, Gray Tal. What are the odds of that? I assume they will bond over their shared experience.

Kovich was obviously so rushed about his schedule that he completely forgot all those other resurrected people.

 

[Uhura's Song]

It has to be one (or more) of the following:

1) Dora/Calypso related.

Dora as Disco's computer cannot be the extent of the tie-in.

2) Spore Drive/Network related.

Would take the whole Book/Stamets thing to another level.

3) Control Related.

A future Control created it somehow and is sending it back to try an accelerate it's dominance/wipe out Starfleet for some reason. Get the Sphere data. Or something. This necessitates them sending Discovery further into the future.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

I’ve seen a couple people mention another time jump, or sending the Discovery into the future in an effort to tie in to Calypso.

In Calypso Discovery wasn’t sent into the future, it had been abandoned for centuries, as specified in the episode.

‪‪I really don’t think Control, Zora, or Calypso, or the Discovery/Spore Drive are connected to the DMA. Doesn’t feel like they’re going in that direction to me at all, and each would feel like a retread of various past season arcs and storylines.

 

[eschaton]

There's a little ambiguity about whether Fuller was still there when the change happened (and it's possible other quotes clarify this further). Interesting stuff, and thanks for pointing me to it! Though, even if it wasn't the plan from the beginning of development, it still seems Mirror Lorca was the plan when most of those screenplays were written, which is more what I was referring to. I was definitely off-base in the specifics though.

I also remember it was reported that Jason Issacs showed up on set and was given a script for the third episode and told it would be pulped and nothing would remain of it, which made him curious why he was given the script. I do wonder if the rewrites partially had to do with the changes to his character post-Fuller.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Nilsson! Enough said.

 

[nic3636]

He was still incredibly fun to watch. I loved his brutality, and how he viewed Georgiou informed so much of his character. Obviously he could have been more interesting from the point of view of being a damaged PU Captain Lorca, but his MU origins didn't take anything away.

Mileage, etc.

yeah I really liked what they did with his character. It worked for me on every level.

 

[nic3636]

I’ve seen a couple people mention another time jump, or sending the Discovery into the future in an effort to tie in to Calypso.

In Calypso Discovery wasn’t sent into the future, it had been abandoned for centuries, as specified in the episode.

‪‪I really don’t think Control, Zora, or Calypso, or the Discovery/Spore Drive are connected to the DMA. Doesn’t feel like they’re going in that direction to me at all, and each would feel like a retread of various past season arcs and storylines.

It’s worth noting the original vision for the show was an anthology series with periodic time jumps every season or two.

 

[eschaton]

It’s worth noting the original vision for the show was an anthology series with periodic time jumps every season or two.

Which actually didn't end up all that different from what happened, considering the time jump from Seasons 2 to 3.

 

[BK613]

I kept expecting Sisko to step out of the experiment and thank them for opening the way.

And David Cronenberg's Kovich, started off looking like an older and wiser Odo but now, now it seems he is channeling Rene for Odo's mannerism and speech patterns!

Laughs, drama, excitement. It's got it all. 9

Hey, maybe after 800 years, the Pah-wraiths finally got the upper hand....

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

Which actually didn't end up all that different from what happened, considering the time jump from Seasons 2 to 3.

‪‪I don’t think it really is all that similar. The original pitch was for an anthology Trek series set in different eras each season, Bryan Fuller described it as being for sci-fi what American Horror Story was for horror.

To me that’s very different from what we got, a single shift in timeframe/setting, following the same main character and supporting cast as the setting changed. But that’s just me.

 

[Mr Awe]

Well, that was alright. Not bad but not great either. I gave it a 7.

At first, I thought, what a convenient plot development that some guy just happened to create a prototype anomaly device. But then it seems like that'll become its own development. Who is the guy and where did he get the knowledge? Makes it easier for our crew because he came to them . . . but we'll see how it goes.

So far, this season has been fluctuating between a 6 and 8 for me. Kind of just there. Not overtly bad. But not really grabbing me with great stuff either.

Culber has been and continues to be absolutely fantastic. He's my favorite character this season. He's really taken it to the next level this season. The writers seem to have found his character's voice and the actor was up for the nuanced challenge.