Spoilers The Flash - Season 8 Discussion Thread

[thribs]

The new season has started. 12 minutes in and we’ve got the Royal Flush Gang. Can’t get more of a JL villain than them.
It’s good to see Ray again but I wish we got more of his Superman. I still think we can do more with him.
Despero’s look is pretty good. The CGI is improving somewhat. They mentioned Alex in this. That’s going to be an awkward conversation since she didn’t invite them to her wedding.

 

[Caretaker]

Loved Ray ripping open his shirt Superman-style. Ray said his losing contact with Nate was do to differences in centuries and/or years, but it makes me wonder if it is because of the team's time stuck in 1925.

Good to see Barry not get his butt handed to him for the first time in what seems forever. Loved him taking down the RFG similarly to the Pentagon prison scene from X-Men Days of Future Past.

This one really works for me, especially with the take that Despero was willing to listen to the heroes. The only thing that bothered me: Ray constantly saying that he is no longer a Legend (I tried not to read into it too much as commentary on his being let go from DC's Legends of Tomorrow). As far as I'm concerned, once a Legend, always a Legend.

 

[tomalak301]

Second half was better than the first half. I thought some of the dialogue was cringy has heck, especially the whole "Level Up" and everything the RF gang said. However, once Despero appeared and we finally got into the plot of Armageddon, I'm somewhat excited for next week. There were a few issues, like Central City Citizen becoming this big journalistic corporation in a few months, no Joe, and shouldn't Barry tell Kramer that he is the Flash? I know they want Drama, but that seems like something that should end the idea of mistrust between the two of them.

I did really like the scene between Caitlin and Barry at the beginning. It was original flash vibes. Unfortunately, Caitlin was pretty much sidelined the rest of the episode.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I liked it. It is nice to have the Flash back. It did a good job of what a season premiere should do: show us where our characters are at, introduce the premise and villain, give us some nice action sequences. Barry taking down the Royal Flush Gang was a very cool scene and an example of Flash using his powers the right way. It was also really good to see Ray again. We got a little character exploration for Ray from not really sure what to do with his life post Legends to embracing being the Atom again, at least for a little bit. The actions scene were fun.

The Royal Flush Gang was a nice "villain of the week". And cool that they go back to the series pilot. Yes, their one liners were cheesy but that is par for the course for Flash villains. I did not mind.

I do think I will like this crossover format better. I think having the crossover a 5 episode special on The Flash instead of jumping between different series, will be better because it will be a more consistent story arc.

I agree that Iris running a big media company was a bit of an issue. Wasn't she just running a two bit blog last season? How did she go from a blog to a big company with employees in just a few months. I guess that is TV magic for you. Obviously, the writers wanted to give Iris and Alegra something different. I do like that Alegra is getting some character development as she grows into her new leadership role.

 

[Christopher]

Kind of a slow start for what was billed as a big crossover event. Reasonably entertaining, but I was hoping to see Ray pass the torch to Ryan Choi. I hope the whole thing isn't just one guest per episode. At least I hope they all team up in part 5.

It's so confusing to have two characters in the franchise named Nora, and to have them both get referred to in the same overall apartment scene. First Barry and Iris talk about being visited by Bart and Nora from the future, and then a couple of minutes later they're asking Ray how he and Nora are doing, without bothering to clarify the distinction. And then there's Speed Force Nora further complicating the issue.

They did a pretty good job with Despero. I feared they'd be downplaying his alien appearance, but we got the full giant CGI alien in extended shots, and the animation was good by Arrowverse standards.

I'm worried about Joe. He was inexplicably absent, and Cecile looked upset when Chester said "dead," as if he'd touched on a recent wound. Hopefully they're just faking us out.

The Royal Flush Gang was a nice "villain of the week". And cool that they go back to the series pilot.

Actually they don't. This is a post-Crisis retcon. There were two pre-Crisis Royal Flush Gangs, one that appeared in episode 6 of Arrow and one briefly featured in episode 11 of The Flash, and this one seems unrelated to either of them. The Arrow RFG were non-metas and were sympathetic villains who didn't hurt innocents, so they were the first bad guys that Oliver chose to take alive. The original Flash RFG was just a three-man motorcycle gang that the Flash took down in the teaser of the first Pied Piper episode.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I predict that Flash and Despero will team up against the real threat. Despero just seems like he is acting on incomplete information and making assumptions. He witnessed Flash acting bad an destroying the world so he is assuming he is the bad guy. Of course, we know Flash is not the bad guy. So something else has to be going on that Despero does not know about.

Actually they don't. This is a post-Crisis retcon. There were two pre-Crisis Royal Flush Gangs, one that appeared in episode 6 of Arrow and one briefly featured in episode 11 of The Flash, and this one seems unrelated to either of them. The Arrow RFG were non-metas and were sympathetic villains who didn't hurt innocents, so they were the first bad guys that Oliver chose to take alive. The original Flash RFG was just a three-man motorcycle gang that the Flash took down in the teaser of the first Pied Piper episode.

Ok. I was referring to the flashback in this ep where we see the headline about the RFG and Barry was recovering from the lightning incident that turned him into the Flash. This version of the RFG were apparently locked up way back when Barry first became the Flash, which harkens back to the series pilot.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Overall, i liked this episode more than anything in Season 7, so based on that alone Season 8 is better. There is still quite a bit of cheesy dialogue, but that seems to be par for the course for the Flash ever since Season 3 was criticized for being “too dark”. I think now we’d all want season 3 quality again on this show.

It looks like their budget was increased as Despero’s CGI form was much better than Fuerza. Maybe it’s just an increased budget for the crossover episodes, but at least it’s something.

Ray Palmer was the best part of this episode and I’m disappointed that it seems he will only be in this one. I was worried that the special guest stars would only appear in one episode each and it seems to be the case.

But despite all of that I did enjoy this episode and am interested in learning more about what happened in 2031. The Flash is at its best when there’s a mystery to solve. I wasn’t at all invested in the forces storyline last season as well as the rushed Godspeed plot, but this Armageddon plot is at least a step above those.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

There is still quite a bit of cheesy dialogue

You are not kidding.

It looks like their budget was increased as Despero’s CGI form was much better than Fuerza. Maybe it’s just an increased budget for the crossover episodes, but at least it’s something.

Not sure about that, since the EFX in the CW-Crisis episodes were horrible.

Ray Palmer was the best part of this episode and I’m disappointed that it seems he will only be in this one. I was worried that the special guest stars would only appear in one episode each and it seems to be the case.

Usually, Berlanti crossovers work that way, and if a guest-star is around for more than one episode, they do not have much to do other than just be there, but not make any significant contribution.

But despite all of that I did enjoy this episode and am interested in learning more about what happened in 2031. The Flash is at its best when there’s a mystery to solve. I wasn’t at all invested in the forces storyline last season as well as the rushed Godspeed plot, but this Armageddon plot is at least a step above those.

I'm interested in seeing how Black Lightning is handled here, as his previous crossover appearance did not have him in-character to what he was experiencing on his own show (IOW, he would have been far more distracted by what was happening to his family).

 

[Christopher]

I was referring to the flashback in this ep where we see the headline about the RFG and Barry was recovering from the lightning incident that turned him into the Flash.

Yes, obviously, but that reference is a retcon, which was my point. I don't consider that "going back to the pilot," since it's not information from the pilot episode itself. It's more like overwriting the pilot. And I'm not sure why the writers felt that was necessary. Why does the RFG have to be the first metas? Maybe we'll find out later, but they seemed to be just villains-of-the-week to start off the larger arc, so if that's not followed up on, it just feels gratuitous.

 

[FreezeC77]

What exactly was that dialogue between Chester and Cecile where Chester mentioned 'dead' and then apologized to Cecile.

Did Joe die between S7 and S8? Did their child die and that's why Joe is 'away'?

 

[Christopher]

One thing that didn't make sense to me was when Barry revealed his true identity to Despero as if it were some big gesture of trust -- after Despero had already read his mind! What the hell? Why did Barry think his real name and face would still come as a surprise to the guy who'd just probed his actual thoughts a moment earlier?? Wouldn't it have had more impact to do it the other way around?

 

[JD]

I predict that Flash and Despero will team up against the real threat. Despero just seems like he is acting on incomplete information and making assumptions. He witnessed Flash acting bad an destroying the world so he is assuming he is the bad guy. Of course, we know Flash is not the bad guy. So something else has to be going on that Despero does not know about.

The preview for next week already explained what happens, apparently something effects his mind and turns him evil.
I really enjoyed this one, it was fun to see Ray again, and we got some nice character work for him as he's trying to figure out what to do with himself post Legends.
I will agree some of the Royal Flush Gangs lines were pretty cheesy, but I thought they were fun cheesy, and not bad enough to ruin the episode.
The stuff with Alegra at CCC was some nice character work for her too. It definitely is weird that they went from being a small blog with three people, to suddenly being a big media company.
It was a little weird that there was no mention of Joe, or explanation for why he wasn't around.

 

[Christopher]

The stuff with Alegra at CCC was some nice character work for her too.

I suppose, but I remain disappointed that they aren't giving her a superhero costume and code name. I mean, Team Flash is barely even a team anymore, at least in the field. Flash and Frost are the only active superheroic members, even though both Allegra and Cecile have superpowers. And I thought that Allegra embracing her full power and "leveling up" last season would've been setup for moving her into a more active superheroic role. So the fact that they're instead focusing on her advancement as a journalist is surprising.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I've been surprised by that too. Does Chester still have his powers?

 

[Christopher]

Does Chester still have his powers?

Oh, I forgot he had those. The wiki presumes he still has his powers but says he hasn't used them since his introduction.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Flash and Frost are the only active superheroic members, even though both Allegra and Cecile have superpowers. And I thought that Allegra embracing her full power and "leveling up" last season would've been setup for moving her into a more active superheroic role.

Allegra won't be at full power until she gets her allergy relief powers.

 

[Marc]

Allegra won't be at full power until she gets her allergy relief powers.

that's nothing to sneeze at.

 

[StCoop]

So I'm assuming / hoping that Joe being "dead" and no one mentioning it directly is something we're supposed to notice and wonder about. (Or is Jesse L Martin the latest Arrowverse actor to mysteriously disappear from their show?)

By the way, the crowd of extras at CCTC was probably more people in the one place than we saw in the entirety of last season.

 

[The Realist]

I suppose, but I remain disappointed that they aren't giving her a superhero costume and code name. I mean, Team Flash is barely even a team anymore, at least in the field. Flash and Frost are the only active superheroic members, even though both Allegra and Cecile have superpowers. And I thought that Allegra embracing her full power and "leveling up" last season would've been setup for moving her into a more active superheroic role. So the fact that they're instead focusing on her advancement as a journalist is surprising.

There's more than one way to be a hero and make a difference, or just to be an interesting character, a fact the Arrowverse shows forget all too often. Granted, Allegra's not the best example to use, since she's a superpowered meta, but the last thing I would ever clamor for in these shows is for more characters to get a "superhero costume and code name." That impulse was poison to Supergirl in its later years, and I can only pray Superman & Lois doesn't fall victim to it.

I'm not a regular Flash viewer anymore, but I wouldn't mourn the loss of "Team Flash." After all, this right here is the hands-down best comics character roster ever created, and only one-quarter of them has a costume and powers:

The rest are just ordinary extraordinary people, interesting characters and character types who entertain fans and enhance stories without any need to put on long johns and zoom around. It's a template the Arrowverse shows would be well advised to observe and emulate, IMO.

 

[Christopher]

There's more than one way to be a hero and make a difference

Yes, I know, and I've always been fond of civilian supporting characters like Alfred and Commissioner Gordon. But I disagree with you -- I think superhero costumes and code names are cool. I mean, why else are we watching a superhero show?

And most of this show's metahuman regulars in the past have ended up with superhero identities -- Kid Flash, Vibe, Frost, Elongated Man, etc. It's kind of weird that we now have more metahuman regulars without superhero personas (Allegra, Cecile, Kramer, apparently Chester) than ones with them (Flash, Frost). If they weren't intended to become supeheroes, why even give them powers?