800 episodes question

[F. King Daniel]

Apparently "We'll Always Have Tom Paris" is the 800th episode of Star Trek released. But I'm curious, does that include TAS as well? And did the 700th episode count of "In a Mirror, Darkly" include it as well?

I'm weirdly curious, since The Animated Series has been in and out of canon as to whether it was counted back in 2004 or now.

 

[Jinn]

Apparently "We'll Always Have Tom Paris" is the 800th episode of Star Trek released. But I'm curious, does that include TAS as well? And did the 700th episode count of "In a Mirror, Darkly" include it as well?

I'm weirdly curious, since The Animated Series has been in and out of canon as to whether it was counted back in 2004 or now.

Memory Alpha says it's 791, but I think they sometimes count two-parters as one if they were originally broadcast together. If you count "Encounter at Farpoint", "All Good Things...", "Emissary", "Way of the Warrior", "What You Leave Behind", "Caretaker", "Dark Frontier", "Flesh and Blood", "Endgame" and "Broken Bow" as twenty instead of ten episodes you get to "We'll Always Have Tom Paris" as... 801? Either I miscounted something, or maybe they didn't count "The Cage"?

As for "In a Mirror, Darkly", MA say it's the 712th episode (counting TAS), but if we add another ten for the two-parters we get to 722, which is an entire TAS over 700.

 

[DarkHorizon]

The video which StarTrek.com released to mark the occasion lists all 800 at the bottom of the screen - it includes TAS, breaks feature-length episodes into two parts, and episode 80 is "Beyond the Farthest Star", so no "The Cage".

 

[Jinn]

Weird that "The Cage" got counted for the first 700 episodes, but not for the first 800.

 

[fireproof78]

I would not expect the Cage to be counted.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Remember that episode of South Park where the nerdy guys were fighting each other over a disagreement over how many original Star Trek episodes there are?

 

[The Wormhole]

^^I seem to recall they were both wrong.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

^^I seem to recall they were both wrong.

Oh yeah, they were arguing between 72 a and 73 weren’t they? And clearly the only point of disagreement was how to count Menagerie.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Surely some feature-length episodes should only count as one part, though? Like, if they were originally aired as one part (like "Dark Frontier" iirc) they should be one episode, but "Unification I" and "Unification II" seperate.

 

[antinoos]

Yeah, you start counting episodes after each closing credits sequence, regardless if it is 90, 60, 45 or 7 minutes long(the episode).

 

[The Wormhole]

Oh yeah, they were arguing between 72 a and 73 weren’t they? And clearly the only point of disagreement was how to count Menagerie.

Yeah, something like that.

Surely some feature-length episodes should only count as one part, though? Like, if they were originally aired as one part (like "Dark Frontier" iirc) they should be one episode, but "Unification I" and "Unification II" seperate.

That's tricky with Voyager episodes like Dark Frontier and Flesh and Blood. Even though they were broadcast as two hour telemovies, the two parts had separate writers and directors. So they kind of are two separate episodes anyway.

 

[Lord Garth]

80 TOS (yes I count "The Cage" and think of "The Menagerie" as a two-parter)
22 TAS
178 TNG (two-hour episodes aired as two-part episodes in syndication)
176 DS9 (see above)
172 VOY (see above)
98 ENT (see above)
42 DSC (as of Season 3)
10 Short Treks
10 PIC (as of Season 1)
13 LD (as of 8/26/21)

80+22+178+176+172+42+10+10+13 = 801

That means TAS is included in the episode count.

It also means that either "The Cage" isn't counted, or "The Menagerie" is only counted once. If "The Menagerie" doesn't fully count as two parts because it recycled footage, then "Shades of Grey" shouldn't even count once because it also recycled footage. That's my take on it.

So, I guess they treat "The Cage" like Episode 0.

EDITED TO ADD: If Paramount+ maintains the pace it's ramping up towards, we'll have the 1,000th episode of Star Trek in this decade. I'm pretty sure they're keeping track of that now and will probably want something BIG (in all capitals) for it.

DOUBLE-EDIT: I think it's a mistake to not count "The Cage" because it's possible that Strange New Worlds could still be in production when the 1,000th episode is made. It's only about five years from now (give or take).

 

[Takeru]

DOUBLE-EDIT: I think it's a mistake to not count "The Cage" because it's possible that Strange New Worlds could still be in production when the 1,000th episode is made. It's only about five years from now (give or take).

I disagree, it's a failed pilot and had its footage repurposed for the series. That it aired decades after the fact as a special and was released on home video doesn't really change that.
I can't think of a single series that includes its unaired pilot in the episode count.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I disagree, it's a failed pilot and had its footage repurposed for the series. That it aired decades after the fact as a special and was released on home video doesn't really change that.
I can't think of a single series that includes its unaired pilot in the episode count.

Failed pilot? The series is being made now!

Admittedly it took 55 years for them to order some more episodes with Pike, Number One and Spock but still...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Eh, the show got made and launched a franchise. So not quite a failure.

 

[Lord Garth]

I disagree, it's a failed pilot and had its footage repurposed for the series. That it aired decades after the fact as a special and was released on home video doesn't really change that.
I can't think of a single series that includes its unaired pilot in the episode count.

I'd go with "rejected pilot" as opposed to "failed pilot". A failed pilot would've led to NBC scrapping Star Trek completely. Instead they ordered another pilot. "The Cage" made NBC see the merit of the Star Trek concept as a series, but they also wanted to see if it could be executed differently.

Plus what @F. King Daniel and @Nerys Myk said.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Yeah, and just like the second pilot WNMHGB was edited down quite a bit and aired a few weeks in, so they edited down The Cage a bit, and added a framing story, to make the two-part Menagerie (which was actually just The Cage's intended title). The only difference between what they did with WNMHGB and The Cage is they had to use a framing story to explain who this Pike guy is and where Kirk went. If The Cage actually starred Shatner, they probably would've just slimmed it down and aired it elsewhere in the first season. Recoup some of that money they spent.

 

[Search4]

Well the Discovery tie in episode started with “previously on Star Trek” so it seems like the Cage was a Star Trek episode.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Well the Discovery tie in episode started with “previously on Star Trek” so it seems like the Cage was a Star Trek episode.

Was any of the TOS footage definitely from The Cage versus The Menagerie.

 

[The Wormhole]

Was any of the TOS footage definitely from The Cage versus The Menagerie.

Are we seriously going to split that hair?