Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 2x01 - "Strange Energies"

[DaveyNY]

I keep repeating it’s cheating with respect to established live-action Star Trek conventions, in particular those of the era in question, as opposed to having the comedy emerge naturally, by following those conventions to the letter and veering off into situations that have been conveniently avoided in live action. Like, who exactly dispenses latinum to Federation citizens on DS9, how much and on what basis? Are certain purchases restricted?



You mean a decision was made at the start that Lower Decks should in no way attempt to overshadow flagship series like DSC, PIC, SNW? I think it has greater potential than any of them, especially if it uses the animated format to maximum advantage.



Again, who declared that Lower Decks needs to be “french fries” and why are you convinced that the show will have to maintain this particular approach? That’s like saying characters on Babylon 5 should’ve forever remained in what seemed to be their roles as of Season 1. And even if the show never evolves significantly, what’s wrong with expressing an opinion on what it should be and asking other fans to do the same? I’m not sure why you’re spending so much time defending McMahan’s approach rather than simply express your own opinion on the series. Did McMahan give you precisely what you wanted, right down to the expected level of humor? You don’t wish anything were different? It’s hard to believe, since we’re all individuals. Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, rather than “CBS decides, fandom accepts and opines on the how and why.”

Most times, when you find yourself pissing into a harsh wind ... it's usually best to turn the other way or zip up till the storm passes.

Of course, one can always choose to continue, but then your the only one who ends up wet and stinky.

 

[Takeru]

I'm a little late but I finally watched the episode yesterday and I really didn't like Tendi this episode, she assaulted Rutherford several times for no good reason at all. If she had actually thought he had the brain melting thing I could understand her behavior but she didn't, she knew the entire time he didn't and made it up to find out if he likes her ... by assaulting and intentionally hurting him?

Mariner also assaulted Ransom and kicked him in the balls repeatedly and then they dropped a boulder on him but in that case the violence actually served a purpose to justify it.
I liked the Gary Mitchell callbacks and the revelation that dropping a boulder on someone affected by strange energy actually stops them. It was also pretty funny that the entire mess started because Mariner power washed a building.

I rate the episode a 6, the Tendi/Rutherford plot brings it down a bit.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

Does anyone really care about this?

Nobody, which is why we’ve had no money in the Federation discussions, not ever. You know, just like nobody cared about Klingon foreheads and fans all over the boards had to wonder why the writers even thought to make a comedy bit out of it. Everyone had firmly united behind “they always looked that way” since TMP and the 100% consensus just evaporated overnight.

Yes, @Boris Skrbic, you don't want a Star Trek comedy/parody. We get it. However, that is what it is and plenty of people like it for what it is.

Effectively at Season 2 and a 3rd season contracted, you're saying, "What if Deep Space Nine WASN'T set on a space station above Bajor?"

Not everyone gets it, which is why I have to keep repeating myself. How many times have I said by now that I want comedy inherent to the setting, not attempted comedy in an exaggerated setting? Where did I say it shouldn’t be a comedy?

I also want to see how many people truly like the show, as if McMahan had telepathically zeroed in on just the kind of Star Trek that was missing, as opposed to people simply settling for it because it’s good enough and more Star Trek is supposedly always better than less Star Trek. Or it could be something in between. I want to see a variety of different reactions as people express their exact views on the show and what it could be.

And DS9 started without a hint of the Dominion in Season 1. I’m not saying Lower Decks needs to completely upend the premise (though it’s exactly what the Babylon 5 spinoff Crusade would’ve done had it not been cancelled), just begin its own evolution in a more interesting direction while remaining consistent with the title.

Regardless, you seem more upset that most of us are fine with it as it is, accepting its far more informal approach to Star Trek. Constantly reminding people that it needs to be more serious when they don't have a problem with it being funny and silly is not a flaw in the show, or in our enjoyment of it.

But “fine with it as it is” doesn’t sound like enthusiasm to me. Perhaps most people simply don’t feel like discussing it online, especially since there are fans who become truly annoyed at criticism and start throwing around words like “hate-watching”, lumping everything together with extreme reactions which are more easily attacked? The sense is sometimes that you really don’t want to come into a forum dedicated to the show and not seem supportive of the official efforts.

Do you actually enjoy it or lower your expectations and then accept it for what it is rather than imagine what it could be?

Then don't watch it. Simple as that.

It doesn’t work that way if you’re a Star Trek fan. I watch it so I can express an opinion on how to make it better, and also for lore, of course, just to see what happens next in the setting.

 

[jackoverfull]

I also want to see how many people truly like the show, as if McMahan had telepathically zeroed in on just the kind of Star Trek that was missing, as opposed to people simply settling for it because it’s good enough and more Star Trek is supposedly always better than less Star Trek. Or it could be something in between. I want to see a variety of different reactions as people express their exact views on the show and what it could be.

well, internet discussion boards are useful to gauge this. So far the posts of people enthusiastic about LDS vs the ones that criticises it seem to be much more favourable to the series than the ones about DIS or Picard.

Of course many people that doesn’t like dis and Picard seem to like LDS, so the perspective might be skewed somehow by the fact that some might simply like it just because they don’t like the other series. But still the impression is quite clear.

 

[matthunter]

I also want to see how many people truly like the show, as if McMahan had telepathically zeroed in on just the kind of Star Trek that was missing, as opposed to people simply settling for it because it’s good enough and more Star Trek is supposedly always better than less Star Trek. Or it could be something in between. I want to see a variety of different reactions as people express their exact views on the show and what it could be.

You've seen plenty of reactions. That you are still hinting people REALLY think the latter option you present when they have said otherwise suggests you are suffering from a bias.

 

[Tuskin38]

It doesn’t work that way if you’re a Star Trek fan.

Uh, yes it does?

Fans don't need to watch every single aspect of the franchise to be a fan. If I dislike something I don't watch it. Simple as that.

If I want to learn what I missed added to the lore, I'd just read memory-alpha, or ask someone who has watched it.

 

[cooleddie74]

I'm a gigantic Star Trek fan. And some episodes of DSC make me cringe with how disappointing they are. So yes, it does work that way if you're a Star Trek fan. If I don't like an episode or episodes I rarely go back and try to rewatch them.

And I don't care how many people "truly" like a show. If I like it then cool if they also do. If I don't like a series AT ALL I couldn't genuinely care less how many other people actually do love it because I find the show to be garbage and can't be bothered to expend the energy necessary to find out. In short: even I, an anal retentive Trek fan of epic scale, just don't care because to each their own.

Don't like ENT? Fine. Your loss in my eyes but at the end of the day who am I to put viewers on the metric and judge the "truth" of their fandom?

 

[Tuskin38]

Not everyone gets it, which is why I have to keep repeating myself. How many times have I said by now that I want comedy inherent to the setting, not attempted comedy in an exaggerated setting? Where did I say it shouldn’t be a comedy?

Well you're not going to get it. That isn't the point of the show.

Just accept that.

 

[Tim Thomason]

That would be like brining Voyager home in Season 2, it would completely ruin the point of the show.

Voyager should've come back at the end of Season 6. Give them a Season to decompress and deal with the consequences of their six years in the Delta Quadrant.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

That you are still hinting people REALLY think the latter option you present when they have said otherwise suggests you are suffering from a bias.

I’m looking for people’s exact opinions of the show. If they say that McMahan is filling a gap with laser precision, that LDS is just what the franchise needed, fine, but I imagine it’s usually not like that. People can also shrug and accept that McMahan is in control under Kurtzman and CBS, all of whom get to decide what happens next, and if the show continues to exist then it must be good enough for CBS, even if an individual fan may believe that the series isn’t taking enough risks, that it’s almost exactly what you’d expect from the announcements.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I’m looking for people’s exact opinions of the show. If they say that McMahan is filling a gap with laser precision, that LDS is just what the franchise needed, fine, but I imagine it’s usually not like that. People can also shrug and accept that McMahan is in control under Kurtzman and CBS, all of whom get to decide what happens next, and if the show continues to exist then it must be good enough for CBS, even if an individual fan may believe that the series isn’t taking enough risks, that it’s almost exactly what you’d expect from the announcements.

My exact opinion of the show is that I like rapid fire comedy, utter chaos, and the overthetop exaggerated style of Lower Decks. I think the show would not have nearly the same level of charm or entertainment level that it does if they were attempting to do a more subdued canon-accurate version. Part of what is so likable about the show is they cram so much into a short amount of space and everything is ridiculously self-refferential.

The show represents the artistic vision of the creator and would be lesser if it were something else.

 

[matthunter]

I’m looking for people’s exact opinions of the show.

And you arbitrate whether it meets that standard. Convenient. It allows you to dismiss what are perfectly valid opinions to everyone else by moving the goalposts.

"You were a bit vague in your second sentence - I'm sensing this might not be really how you feel..."

 

[Boris Skrbic]

And you arbitrate whether it meets that standard. Convenient. It allows you to dismiss what are perfectly valid opinions to everyone else by moving the goalposts.

"You were a bit vague in your second sentence - I'm sensing this might not be really how you feel..."

What moving of goalposts? Most of the talk so far has been about me explaining and clarifying over and over again what I’d like to see, and a lot of people telling me why I’m not gonna get it. This is not an interrogation, just an attempt to get some opinionated variety into the thread.

 

[matthunter]

What moving of goalposts? Most of the talk so far has been about me explaining and clarifying over and over again what I’d like to see, and a lot of people telling me why I’m not gonna get it. This is not an interrogation, just an attempt to get some opinionated variety into the thread.

You've HAD opinions. You have dismissed them as "not exact enough".

Goalpost moving.

We are not writing you a 1000 word essay just to say "we like the show as it is" just because you don't feel that answers your query. And I suspect you would dismiss it even if we did.

 

[Charles Phipps]

What moving of goalposts? Most of the talk so far has been about me explaining and clarifying over and over again what I’d like to see, and a lot of people telling me why I’m not gonna get it. This is not an interrogation, just an attempt to get some opinionated variety into the thread.

Gotcha.

A lot of us REALLY love the show's zanny hyperactive humor.

 

[cooleddie74]

And the fact they haven't retconned the look of this era of Starfleet. There are lots of legitimate reasons both comedic and stylistic to like this series and if it isn't for you then don't watch it.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

You've HAD opinions. You have dismissed them as "not exact enough".

Goalpost moving.

We are not writing you a 1000 word essay just to say "we like the show as it is" just because you don't feel that answers your query. And I suspect you would dismiss it even if we did.

How is it goalpost moving when I first offered you more than my one-sentence summary: “The show is worth barely a chuckle.” I didn’t write an essay either, just a post and further clarifying posts. I’m not asking for anything more than what I’ve said for myself. If you like it as it is, OK, I’d sure like to know why it works for you. If you don’t feel like elaborating, it’s not going to happen. This is just an online discussion.

 

[fireproof78]

The show represents the artistic vision of the creator and would be lesser if it were something else.

Exactly. And my wishing it was something else will not make it so.

The show works as presented. It is entertaining, energetic and has some very engaging characters. Is it the type of show I would write? Nope. But, it is very fun.

 

[Michael]

Guys, take it down a notch with the ganging up on @Boris Skrbic. Someone voicing their opinion about the show and how they would wish it would change is no reason to tell them they should just stop watching. This is not a thread where only endless gushing about the show is allowed. This thread is precisely for people talking about their criticism as well. And to me it seems super petty to apparently not being able to just let someone who wishes the show to be different be.

Edit to add: Personally I'm super critical of some of the aspects of the show and the other Trek shows as well. It doesn't matter to me one bit that I won't be able to convince the producers to change their shows because of my criticism. Doesn't stop me from wanting to talk about it online. That's what a Trek message board is for.

 

[Amaris]

Guys, take it down a notch with the ganging up on @Boris Skrbic. Someone voicing their opinion about the show and how they would wish it would change is no reason to tell them they should just stop watching. This is not a thread where only endless gushing about the show is allowed. This thread is precisely for people talking about their criticism as well. And to me it seems super petty to apparently not being able to just let someone who wishes the show to be different be.

Edit to add: Personally I'm super critical of some of the aspects of the show and the other Trek shows as well. It doesn't matter to me one bit that I won't be able to convince the producers to change their shows because of my criticism. Doesn't stop me from wanting to talk about it online. That's what a Trek message board is for.

I'm not sure you believe that.

Now, before you get upset, THAT is what is going on. People are talking about they enjoy the show, no one is being criticized for having issues, they're being criticized for telling other people that they're not being honest about liking the show.