Swearing in Star Trek - Steve Shives

[Greg Cox]

Context really does matter. Am I going to watch my language if I'm speaking at a grade-school library? Of course. Am I going to be less circumspect if I'm doing a midnight horror panel at a convention, in front of an audience composed entirely entirely of adults? Sure.

Same thing with fiction. Am I going to throw the f-word all over a kid's book? Nope. If I'm writing an UNDERWORLD or TERMINATOR novel, based on an R-rated franchise? Sure. Why not?

Geography is also a factor. One adjusts one's dialogue according to your environment. How one talks while hanging out with your grown-up friends in Brookyn or Greenwich Village can be different than when visiting an Amish market in rural Pennsylvania. You just need to be sensitive to the setting.

It's funny. I was in North Carolina a few years back and was mildly startled when a fellow apologized for telling a slightly off-color story "in mixed company."

Seriously? That was a still a thing?

Even in SF fandom, you can run into slightly different cultures and mores depending where you are -- and you adjust your language accordingly.

And, again, profanity doesn't necessarily involve people angrily screaming abuse at each other. Often, in my experience, it can be employed to humorous effect, just for emphasis.

"What the fuck? Is that actually an ostrich running down the street?"

 

[fireproof78]

It's funny. I was in North Carolina a few years back and was mildly startled when a fellow apologized for telling a slightly off-color story "in mixed company."

Seriously? That was a still a thing?

I live in the more rural part of the Pacific Northwest and that is certainly a thing around here too. People are careful with their language depending on the company. But, at my office, swearing in frustration, note: not at each other, is fairly common place and we support each other's need to vent when we can.

My whole thing with swearing in Star Trek is largely that it will depend on the context. Picard's "Not good enough, damn it" bothers me far more than "fucking cool." Kirk's "you Klingon bastard" is more upsetting that Admiral Clancy. Context matters here.

Swearing, as someone else noted (possibly you, sir) is a spice to be used. Swearing is not an indication of immorality. And, personally, I have been that judgmental of people without having even met them beyond a brief interaction, and they casually used the term "damn." But, I still regarded them poorly until I had the opportunity to interact with them.

For me, that's the bigger thing and why this whole conversation is so strange. Swearing means different things to different people but the amount of assumptions going on around new Trek and the people who don't mind the use of the occasional f-word in Star Trek is astonishing. Like, is there really the assumption that swearing indicates a more debase person who hasn't evolved yet? Is that still a thing?

 

[Greg Cox]

Like, is there really the assumption that swearing indicates a more debase person who hasn't evolved yet? Is that still a thing?

Yeah, the idea that it's somehow intrinsically "primitive" or a sign of poor breeding or intelligence kinda baffles me. Some of the smartest, most educated people I know swear like sailors, depending on the context.

There's a world of difference between shouting "Fuck you, asshole!" in a heated moment and, say, Dorothy Parker famously telegraphing her editor: "Fucking busy -- and vise versa."

 

[Weyoun 251]

I live in the more rural part of the Pacific Northwest and that is certainly a thing around here too. People are careful with their language depending on the company. But, at my office, swearing in frustration, note: not at each other, is fairly common place and we support each other's need to vent when we can.

My whole thing with swearing in Star Trek is largely that it will depend on the context. Picard's "Not good enough, damn it" bothers me far more than "fucking cool." Kirk's "you Klingon bastard" is more upsetting that Admiral Clancy. Context matters here.

Swearing, as someone else noted (possibly you, sir) is a spice to be used. Swearing is not an indication of immorality. And, personally, I have been that judgmental of people without having even met them beyond a brief interaction, and they casually used the term "damn." But, I still regarded them poorly until I had the opportunity to interact with them.

For me, that's the bigger thing and why this whole conversation is so strange. Swearing means different things to different people but the amount of assumptions going on around new Trek and the people who don't mind the use of the occasional f-word in Star Trek is astonishing. Like, is there really the assumption that swearing indicates a more debase person who hasn't evolved yet? Is that still a thing?

Really good points.

Certainly in the UK there is less of an issue around "religious swearing" than I perceived the US to have.

Swearing seems to be run of the mill here too - certainly at the football and rugby you'll hear all sorts in the stands.

As I say, it tends to be used as an accentuation of a point or to add colour rather than in an aggressive way more often than not

 

[cooleddie74]

How about the neo-fascists in America who won't type out obscenities because they're dirty but will endorse authoritarianism and violent insurrections? Some "well-bred" and "sophisticated" examples of humanity they are.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

How about the neo-fascists in America who won't type out obscenities because they're dirty but will endorse authoritarianism and violent insurrections? Some "well-bred" and "sophisticated" examples of humanity they are.

That's one fucked up sense of priorities.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Go to H*LL!"

Also:

"You should have to own property in America to even have the right to cast a ballot! The January 6th people at the Capitol were tourists! Shoot anyone crossing the border illegally!"

 

[Oddish]

And some of us are opposed to violent insurrection and authoritarianism, regardless of who imposes either, we have no illusions about our breeding or sophistication, and we asterisk out cusswords anyway.

 

[fireproof78]

And some of us are opposed to violent insurrection and authoritarianism, regardless of who imposes either, we have no illusions about our breeding or sophistication, and we asterisk out cusswords anyway.

Asterisking out cuss words is more fun for me.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I have no problem with the occasional bit of swearing in Trek, or any other show. Or even standup comedy. Generally, though, my attitude is this:

Foul language doesn't automatically make you funnier.

Heck, even some of George Carlin's best routines were clean.

 

[cooleddie74]

And some of us are opposed to violent insurrection and authoritarianism, regardless of who imposes either, we have no illusions about our breeding or sophistication, and we asterisk out cusswords anyway.

Yes, but you're not terrible people.

 

[fireproof78]

As far as you can prove....

 

[Greg Cox]

I live in the more rural part of the Pacific Northwest and that is certainly a thing around here too. People are careful with their language depending on the company.

My grandparents lived in those parts. My parents never censored our reading, and indeed encouraged us kids to read beyond our age levels, which inevitably meant encountering "adult" language and subject matter, but they did ask me, as a favor, not to read my SON OF SATAN comics at Grandma's house in Puyallup.

 

[Tuskin38]

If Australian Dash Cam videos are an accurate representation, they use the word Cunt down there, like people in the US and Canada would use fuck.

The use of swear words changes between countries. Even between countries that speak the same language or dialect of.

 

[Weyoun 251]

And some of us are opposed to violent insurrection and authoritarianism, regardless of who imposes either, we have no illusions about our breeding or sophistication, and we asterisk out cusswords anyway.

This is meant as genuinely as someone who has grown up in Liverpool and spent a long time in Leeds can manage - so probably sarcastic as anything is how it will come across.

Would you describe yourself as Libertarian then?

It feels to me that those who use the term "cuss" rather than "swearing" generally are more anti swearing and the term cuss does appear to be a US term - certainly not used over here.

Do you find swearing is relatively taboo in the US to a certain extent?

 

[The Wormhole]

If Australian Dash Cam videos are an accurate representation, they use the word Cunt down there, like people in the US and Canada would use fuck.

The use of swear words changes between countries. Even between countries that speak the same language or dialect of.

Look up Honest Government Ads on YouTube if you want to experience Australian profanity at its finest.

IIRC, Cunt is quite a common used word in Britain as well.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Look up Honest Government Ads on YouTube if you want to experience Australian profanity at its finest.

IIRC, Cunt is quite a common used word in Britain as well.

It didn't used to be but I think GoT kind of normalised it a bit.

Certainly 10 years back it was rare you'd hear it other than in an aggressive manner.

Twat is a bit of an easier going one I think due to the fact is doesn't have the hard consonant at the end that gives it a bit of an edge

 

[Oddish]

Would you describe yourself as Libertarian then?

Yes. I only split from party lines on hard drugs (for practical reasons) and abortion (for personal ones). Everyone has rights, and no one has the right to usurp anyone else's. And no one has the right to force their beliefs or opinions on anyone.

Not a popular way to think these days, but I think it's in line with the philosophy of Star Trek.

Do you find swearing is relatively taboo in the US to a certain extent?

F-words aren't much of a deal where I am, but I'm in the urban Pacific Northwest, which is pretty liberal. The 21st century curse words I mentioned before... you hardly ever hear them.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Yes. I only split from party lines on hard drugs (for practical reasons) and abortion (for personal ones). Everyone has rights, and no one has the right to usurp anyone else's. And no one has the right to force their beliefs or opinions on anyone.

Not a popular way to think these days, but I think it's in line with the philosophy of Star Trek.



F-words aren't much of a deal where I am, but I'm in the urban Pacific Northwest, which is pretty liberal. The 21st century curse words I mentioned before... you hardly ever hear them.

I'm kind of with you and against you on your first point.

I tend to the view that people should have the right to do what they please - provided it does not cause harm, whether directly or indirectly to other people.

So, for example, whilst I don't think the COVID vaccine should be mandatory, I support the idea that businesses should have the right to restrict access to those who haven't had it due to the potential risk to others.

I would lean towards the view that Trek has the "provided no harm..." caveat applied as well.

With Libertarianism as a whole, the bit I disagree with is the tax policies as, whilst I am not a socialist (far from it) I believe strongly in policies that support social welfare - the NHS, sufficient taxes to keep schools, police, roads and so on in good order.

On the swearing, fair enough - I think over here in the professional world you'll hear your standard shit, fuck, damn etc relatively regularly these days but twat and cunt are still treated as words you keep in the personal sphere

 

[Oddish]

C*** is quite a common used word in Britain as well.

It's one of the few here that is "bad" in both the 20th and 21st centuries. Probably because it's a common derogatory term for women. "Pussy", which I don't asterisk out because I saw it in Mother Goose for crying out loud, is tolerated because it seems to mean something similar to "pansy".