• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Swearing in Star Trek - Steve Shives

It's one of the few here that is "bad" in both the 20th and 21st centuries. Probably because it's a common derogatory term for women. "Pussy", which I don't asterisk out because I saw it in Mother Goose for crying out loud, is tolerated because it seems to mean something similar to "pansy".

So this might be strange, and I think it stems in part from everyone's favourite sunbed victim's famous "grab her by the..." quote, but I find pussy to be quite distasteful as it feels to me like it has a more direct connotation with describing a woman's sexual organs than cunt does which, whilst it still comes from the same place, will rarely be used in a sexualised manner.
 
There should be no swearing in Star Trek, only solemn affirmations to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
 
tend to the view that people should have the right to do what they please - provided it does not cause harm, whether directly or indirectly to other people.

I feel exactly as you do. I would be fine with lifting motorcycle helmet and seat belt laws and allowing hard drugs if AND ONLY IF people who were mutilated by dispensing with belts/helmets or poisoned by hard drugs could not collect one dollar's worth of free medical care. Destroy yourself with your own stupidity if you must, but don't force hardworking taxpayers to clean up the mess.

So, for example, whilst I don't think the COVID vaccine should be mandatory, I support the idea that businesses should have the right to restrict access to those who haven't had it.

Agreed. People have the right to make stupid choices, if and only if they are the only ones who suffer from their stupidity.
 
Context really does matter. Am I going to watch my language if I'm speaking at a grade-school library? Of course. Am I going to be less circumspect if I'm doing a midnight horror panel at a convention, in front of an audience composed entirely entirely of adults? Sure.
Thinking about the lecture scene ("pee-pee envy," &c.) in High Anxiety.
There's a world of difference between shouting "Fuck you, asshole!" in a heated moment and, say, Dorothy Parker famously telegraphing her editor: "Fucking busy -- and vise versa." :)
Indeed! (ROFLMFAO!)
How about the neo-fascists in America who won't type out obscenities because they're dirty but will endorse authoritarianism and violent insurrections? Some "well-bred" and "sophisticated" examples of humanity they are. :rolleyes:
That's one fucked up sense of priorities.
On that we are in complete agreement.

Re: SW, CE3K, and ET, I never said that they could have gotten G ratings as released. Of course the editing decisions would make a big difference in the ratings. A far bigger difference, at least for those three films, than they would make in the storytelling.

The biggest mistake Jack Valenti made when he designed the ratings system was that he failed to anticipate two things: (1) Theatrically released pornography (up to then, pornographic films were something you watched in the back room of an "adult bookstore," or rented for a stag party), and (2) films primarily intended for very small children, of a sort that most adults would find uninteresting, and older children and teens would find distasteful (a genre that, in its own way, is every bit as exploitative as pornography). His second biggest mistake was in remaining, ostensibly to avoid spoilers, "as tight-lipped as an Aldebaran Shellmouth" about the reason for a given rating, which led to the X (and its trademarked successor, NC-17) being debased by an automatic assumption that it meant hardcore pornography.

(On that assumption, I will note that I recall seeing ads for a movie called Zombie, released without a rating, that declared [1] that it had no sexual content, and [2] that the producers themselves were requiring theatres to deny admission to anybody under 18.)

There is no doubt in my mind that Valenti intended G to be the most common rating for mainstream movies. I cited a short list out of the nearly 200 G movies released between 1968 and 1972 as an indication of that; if you look at the entire list (not difficult to call up on the IMDB site; go to Advanced Title Search), you will see for yourself that G movies from that time period included at least as many movies most young kids wouldn't want to see as movies that teens and non-parent twenty-somethings wouldn't want to see. And I cited Yorga as an example of what GP (which started out as M, and ended up as PG) was intended to cover, something that was either re-rated PG-13, or that somebody at the IMDB mistakenly listed as PG-13, based on today's standards, despite the very legible trademarked GP logo on the poster.
 
It's one of the few here that is "bad" in both the 20th and 21st centuries. Probably because it's a common derogatory term for women. "Pussy", which I don't asterisk out because I saw it in Mother Goose for crying out loud, is tolerated because it seems to mean something similar to "pansy".
No need to censor anything, it isn't against the site's rules to swear. It depends on *how* you use those words if it gets you in trouble or not.
 
Do you find swearing is relatively taboo in the US to a certain extent?

In my experience, it really, really depends on the region and the local culture. Are we talking rural or urban, East or West or South, or whatever? And even there it depends a lot on the context? Or we talking Sunday at church or late-night at a comedy club? A child's birthday party or a Midnight Movie screening of "Rocky Horror Picture Show"?

Another true story. I remember doing an event at a bookstore, anticipating an older crowd, when I was surprised to spot several small children in the audience. Had to hastily revise my planned presentation on the fly.

"Okay, so much for that funny anecdote. And I guess I'm not reading this chapter tonight." :)
 
Last edited:
In my experience, it really, really depends on the region and the local culture. Are we talking rural or urban, East or West or South, or whatever? And even there it depends a lot on the context? Or we talking Sunday at church or late-night at a comedy club? A child's birthday party or a Midnight Movie screening of "Rocky Horror Picture Show"?

Another true story. I remember doing an event at a bookstore, anticipating an older crowd, when I surprised to spot several small children in the audience. Had to hastily revised my planned presentation on the fly.

"Okay, so much for that funny anecdote. And I guess I'm not reading this chapter tonight." :)

The best-laid plans of mice and men...
 
Sure it is. It's just a matter of what the admins consider to be swearwords.
As I said, it all depends on the context. Mods have said in the past swearing is fine, as long as it's not used against another user or in an overly negative or offensive matter.

Like I can't tell someone to 'fuck off'. But I can still say it like as an example of something I can't do to other users.

Obviously we can't use any sort of offensive slurs. Those go beyond common swear words.
 
Like I can't tell someone to 'fuck off'. But I can still say it like as an example of something I can't do to other users.

Well, in The Neutral Zone you can. Telling trolls to do unspeakable acts to themselves is largely tolerated in TNZ what with that forum being a more freewheeling, political-themed place where more heated opinions are often expressed and many things are overlooked or permitted. But yes, you're right about slurs. Try those in any forum on the board and you're headed for a ban if not a permaban.
 
Obviously we can't use any sort of offensive slurs. Those go beyond common swear words.

A swearword is, in the end, a word that is so offensive that it stops conversations in a room and causes eyes to get big and jaws to drop. It is so "bad", it is commonplace to administer correction to those who dare to use it: washing a child's mouth out with soap, sending a teenager to detention, or ejecting an adult from a given community (like this one) are examples. The "F word" used to carry that stigma, but has lost much of it. The "big big D" has lost so much, even I don't bother asterisking it out. Now the truly filthy words are the ones that attack our cultural values of tolerance and diversity. They don't "go beyond" swearwords, they are the new swearwords.
 
A swearword is, in the end, a word that is so offensive that it stops conversations in a room and causes eyes to get big and jaws to drop. It is so "bad", it is commonplace to administer correction to those who dare to use it: washing a child's mouth out with soap, sending a teenager to detention, or ejecting an adult from a given community (like this one) are examples. The "F word" used to carry that stigma, but has lost much of it. The "big big D" has lost so much, even I don't bother asterisking it out. Now the truly filthy words are the ones that attack our cultural values of tolerance and diversity. They don't "go beyond" swearwords, they are the new swearwords.

I think the words being referenced are the various racist and homophobic words, of which we all know what they are and don't need directly referencing.

Not sure what you mean by "new swearwords" as I'm pretty sure the words this was intended about have at least 2 centuries of history to them
 
I think the words being referenced are the various racist and homophobic words, of which we all know what they are and don't need directly referencing.

That's why I didn't directly reference them. I knew I didn't have to.

Not sure what you mean by "new swearwords" as I'm pretty sure the words this was intended about have at least 2 centuries of history to them

So? Certain words that used to mean "rooster", "donkey", and "house cat" are now considered swearwords as well. As language evolves, formerly offensive words can become innocuous... but they can go the other way.
 
That's why I didn't directly reference them. I knew I didn't have to.



So? Certain words that used to mean "rooster", "donkey", and "house cat" are now considered swearwords as well. As language evolves, formerly offensive words can become innocuous... but they can go the other way.

I wonder if we are potentially talking at crossed purposes here and may just have misunderstood each other.

My point was primarily that I would draw a clear distinction between swearwords and hate speech. I wouldn't classify them as falling under the same umbrella.

I'm not sure I entirely follow your final point - and apologies for being daft if it is actually quite obvious. I fully get that the societal impact of certain words changes over time - language is just a bloody huge amorphous blob that is constantly reshaping and evolving.

I just don't follow what the crux of your point was/what point you were trying to make.

As I say, it is probably me being daft and misunderstanding you.
 
The "big big D" has lost so much,

As in "I have a big big D"?

I think the words being referenced are the various racist and homophobic words, of which we all know what they are and don't need directly referencing.

In the UK, "fags" is a term for cigarettes. "Faggot" is a meatball+gravy thing I used to eat as a kid.

The increased cross-cultural communication from the internet has certainly changed things, with words not just changing meaning over time but over distances and culture too. "Fagging" for the upper class English aristocracy in the mid 20th century was about a traditional servant/master relationship between kids at posh schools, something that normal people would have no idea about.
 
As in "I have a big big D"?



In the UK, "fags" is a term for cigarettes. "Faggot" is a meatball+gravy thing I used to eat as a kid.

The increased cross-cultural communication from the internet has certainly changed things, with words not just changing meaning over time but over distances and culture too. "Fagging" for the upper class English aristocracy in the mid 20th century was about a traditional servant/master relationship between kids at posh schools, something that normal people would have no idea about.

Yes but there is a clear difference between me smoking a fag, ordering faggots and chips, or calling someone either of those words.

The F word, as far as I can tell, doesn't permeate the language in the UK the way it does in the US.

We have our own colourful and equally distasteful words for LGBT people that, in my experience, get used much more commonly than thw F word.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top