Spoilers Batwoman - Season 2

[Mr. Adventure]

My point is that it's not a thing just yet though. The problems with law enforcement today aren't because of deepfakes so it's a separation with what is really happening right now to people. It's fine as a story element but it might affect the effectiveness of trying to make a statement.

 

[Christopher]

My point is that it's not a thing just yet though. The problems with law enforcement today aren't because of deepfakes so it's a separation with what is really happening right now to people. It's fine as a story element but it might affect the effectiveness of trying to make a statement.

I take your point, but I think it makes sense in the context of this particular story. In real life, the cops are always quick to call attention to any criminal record on the part of the unarmed black kid they shot in the back or choked to death, in an attempt to shift the blame on the victim and suggest that they "deserved" it. In this case, though, as Jacob explicitly said to Tavaroff, Luke Fox has no trace of a criminal record and has been meticulously strait-laced his entire life. So the only way the episode could suggest the dynamic of law enforcement impugning the reputation of the victim was through the planted gun and the deepfaked bodycam video putting it in Luke's hand. His record was so spotless that they had to fake it.

Although you could fairly argue that that undermines the statement, because it doesn't really confront the evil of the implication that any minor criminal history justifies execution on the spot. It would've been a more potent story if it were more realistic, with the shooting victim having some genuine minor record that the authorities used to impugn his worth as a human being. Maybe Luke could've chalked up some misdemeanors as teenage rebellion, or gotten tickets for jaywalking or something.

 

[Samurai8472]

First look at

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Luke Fox as Batwing

 

[Mr. Adventure]

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A face guard! Isn't that bat-sacrilege? Actually, the helmet is the main thing I'm not sure, might grow on me though . The pouches look like they'd get caught on things but the overall look is pretty slick.

 

[Christopher]

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A face guard! Isn't that bat-sacrilege? Actually, the helmet is the main thing I'm not sure, might grow on me though . The pouches look like they'd get caught on things but the overall look is pretty slick.

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Fairly close to the comics, apparently: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/m...extless.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130501164606

Terry in Batman Beyond was the first Bat-hero with a full-face mask, I think, although one that somehow had a moving mouth. Never could figure out how that was supposed to work.

 

[Xerxes82]

It's either Terry from Batman Beyond, or Cass Cain as Batgirl. I THINK Terry came first, but I'm honestly not as familiar with Cass as I am most of the rest of the Bat-Fam.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

First look at

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Luke Fox as Batwing

I hope this development does not steer the character away from the larger, national issue his recent situation was supposed to be a comment about.

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On a side note, I also hope this does not just make him another "suit" with no attention paid to his real life as a black man faced with the criminal justice system--something completely watered down / barely addressed with James Olsen as Guardian on Supergirl.

 

[Christopher]

It's either Terry from Batman Beyond, or Cass Cain as Batgirl. I THINK Terry came first, but I'm honestly not as familiar with Cass as I am most of the rest of the Bat-Fam.

I looked them up -- Batman Beyond predates Cassandra Cain's debut by six months, and her debut as Batgirl by seven months.

 

[JD]

I can almost guarentee you they are not going to. This hasn't really been a show that goes that deep into issues like this and I don't think they're going to go any deeper on this one.
Not every show is going to go all in on multiple episode for these kind of issues. They acknowledged it and explored how it effects their black characters, and now they're going to move on.
This really is primarily an action show, so it's expecting to much of them to really go all in on something like this like you want them to.
Not every show is going to be a deep examination of this kind of stuff, some shows just like to acknowledge that it is happening and then move on.
You really need to learn to match your expectations to what you're watching.

First look at

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Luke Fox as Batwing

I've been wondering if that was going to happen. I like what I'm seeing there so far.
I'm really starting to think these kind of superhero shows (and movies) just aren't for you. You really seem to go into almost every one of these with unrealistic expectations for what you want them to be.

 

[Christopher]

Not every show is going to go all in on multiple episode for these kind of issues. They acknowledged it and explored how it effects their black characters, and now they're going to move on.

That's not what it looks like from the previews.

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Clearly Luke's shooting is meant to be the catalyst for his decision to become Batwing. There's a clip in the preview for next week of John Diggle counseling Luke to use his anger constructively. So clearly he's not just going to forget what was done to him.

 

[JD]

Sure, they might deal with how being shot effected Luke, but that's separate from continuing to deal with corrupt and racist law enforcement, and how they treat black people. The fact that they stopped Tavarov and shut down the Crows makes me think that's probably going to be the end of that part of the story.

 

[Christopher]

Sure, they might deal with how being shot effected Luke, but that's separate from continuing to deal with corrupt and racist law enforcement, and how they treat black people. The fact that they stopped Tavarov and shut down the Crows makes me think that's probably going to be the end of that part of the story.

For now, perhaps, but I doubt they'll just forget about racism forevermore. It'll be an underlying thread, as it was in Black Lightning, though it probably won't be quite as pronounced.

I mean, this is The CW we're talking about. Social consciousness is their brand these days, even if they don't always go into the issues as deeply or subtly as they could.

 

[JD]

Sure, but it's probably not going to be a major focus of the series, with whole season long story arcs dealing exclusively with issues like racism, police corruption, ect.

 

[Christopher]

Sure, but it's probably not going to be a major focus of the series, with whole season long story arcs dealing exclusively with issues like racism, police corruption, ect.

Not an exclusive focus, certainly, but that doesn't mean it won't be addressed at all. Maybe we should just wait and see what they actually do instead of trying to read tea leaves.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

I looked them up -- Batman Beyond predates Cassandra Cain's debut by six months, and her debut as Batgirl by seven months.

Cass's Batgirl costume, though, worn by a "mysterious unknown character" who turned out to be Helena Bertinelli, debuted in "Batman: Shadow of the Bat" #83:

The cover date was March 1999, so considering how comic cover dates work, it should have been released pretty close to Batman Beyond's premiere on January 10.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

This really is primarily an action show, so it's expecting to much of them to really go all in on something like this like you want them to.
Not every show is going to be a deep examination of this kind of stuff, some shows just like to acknowledge that it is happening and then move on.

I don't know which show you're watching, but Batwoman is no different than the other Berlanti shows which are not light on sociopolitical issues and are not all "one-and-done" plots either--until the gross mishandling of what Luke's situation was supposed to represent in this plot.

I'm really starting to think these kind of superhero shows (and movies) just aren't for you. You really seem to go into almost every one of these with unrealistic expectations for what you want them to be.

You seem to think everything is like the worst of the MCU, where its not much more than an action romp and grab some more popcorn. If left up to you, the number of very serious themes which shaped The Falcon and the Winter Soldier would have prevented it from going to series at all (the same with Black Lightning), as you think comic book shows & movies have to be one way with the same repeated beats. Thankfully, they are not and the genre is better off for it.

 

[Christopher]

The cover date was March 1999, so considering how comic cover dates work, it should have been released pretty close to Batman Beyond's premiere on January 10.

Hmm, yeah, it probably came out earlier, although given how much longer the lead time is on an animated series compared to a comic, the Beyond costume was almost certainly designed earlier. I guess we can call it effectively a tie.

 

[JD]

I don't know which show you're watching, but Batwoman is no different than the other Berlanti shows which are not light on sociopolitical issues and are not all "one-and-done" plots either--until the gross mishandling of what Luke's situation was supposed to represent in this plot.

Yeah, they have touched on some issues, but they don't tend to go that deep into them.

You seem to think everything is like the worst of the MCU, where its not much more than an action romp and grab some more popcorn. If left up to you, the number of very serious themes which shaped The Falcon and the Winter Soldier would have prevented it from going to series at all (the same with Black Lightning), as you think comic book shows & movies have to be one way with the same repeated beats. Thankfully, they are not and the genre is better off for it.

And you do the exact same thing in the opposite direction, so you're not really in a place to criticize me.
And I don't have a problem with shows like Black Lightning or The Falcon & The Winter Solider that go deep into the issues, but I don't expect every single movie, and TV show that is being produced to do that, and I don't start throwing a shit fit when a show doesn't do and start insulting the show, the writers, or the people who enjoy it, the way you do.
Even if it isn't your intent, I have found a lot of your posts about things like the MCU highly insulting.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

And you do the exact same thing in the opposite direction, so you're not really in a place to criticize me.
And I don't have a problem with shows like Black Lightning or The Falcon & The Winter Solider that go deep into the issues, but I don't expect every single movie, and TV show that is being produced to do that, and I don't start throwing a shit fit when a show doesn't do and start insulting the show, the writers, or the people who enjoy it, the way you do.
Even if it isn't your intent, I have found a lot of your posts about things like the MCU highly insulting.

You're full of it, as not one is asking or expecting every superhero series or movie to deal with the kind of serious issues seen in Black Lightning or The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, nor should they try. That's quite a different position from someone who falls back on the "oh, its comic book movies" as a whisker-thin excuse / desire for all such productions to be light action romps. Again, if it were up to you, many of the best superhero productions of the past two decades would not exist, as you are see no value in anything that is not from a certain assembly line of tone and content.

 

[JD]

You're full of it, as not one is asking or expecting every superhero series or movie to deal with the kind of serious issues seen in Black Lightning or The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, nor should they try.

Sorry, that really was the way a lot of your posts have come across to me.
When I said in my last post that I have found some of your pasts posts insulting, I was being completely serious. A lot of the things you have said, have come across to me as you saying that anyone who likes the MCU, or anything like it, is a loser, and juvenile moron who is below you, and who you look down on.

That's quite a different position from someone who falls back on the "oh, its comic book movies" as a whisker-thin excuse / desire for all such productions to be light action romps. Again, if it were up to you, many of the best superhero productions of the past two decades would not exist, as you are see no value in anything that is not from a certain assembly line of tone and content.
Like

I never meant to say that every show or movie should be like, and I apologize for the misunderstanding if that was how it came across, all I ever meant was that I prefer lighter stuff, and that I don't go into everything expecting it to be like Black Lightning or The Falcon and The Winter Soldier.
And it seems like any time a you were commenting on a show that wasn't like that, all you did was insult the show, the people who made it, and the people who liked it.
I watched stuff like this as escapism to get away from the fucking horrific, nightmare shit show that is the real world, and while there is definitely value in examining the issues that make it a fucking horrific, nightmare shit show, I'd rather not have to be reminded of that every time I watch a TV show or movie. Sometimes I just want to sit back, and have fun, which I find hard to do when all a show or movie does is remind me how horrible things are.