Unseen TOS....

[aridas sofia]

The fact that ships were overly detailed and recoloured in ways that were not done before is sufficient to show they did not adhere to TOS’ aesthetic. That fact that ships were not lighted to recreate how things were originally lighted shows they did not adhere to TOS’ aesthetic. The fact they were creating scenes that could not possibly have been filmed back in the day shows the original practice in showing how ships moved was trashed,

All sorts of examples are available, but what they did to the hangar deck and shuttlecraft is a perfect example. The TOS-R versions of hangar and shuttlecraft look like shit.

I have my problems with what was done, but what they did with the hangar deck is not one of them. I don’t know what Jefferies and Datin were thinking when they designed and built that hangar model, beyond following a Roddenberry who at one point characterized the hangar as being capable of holding a fleet of airliners. You and I know that is not true. The ship is huuuugggge, and yet the hangar is the size TOS-R portrayed it as being. Enterprise is as big as a carrier, and yet a carrier is a big box. Enterprise is more complex. It flies, it doesn’t sail. And importantly, seeing a shuttlecraft weave its way without trouble into a small space is more futuristic (to me) than yet another huge landing space. After Death Stars and Battlestars, I don’t need to see any more gigantic hangars- particularly ones that are hugely out of scale with the portrayed scale of the ship they are on. I think Okuda et al did wrong in some places, did well in others, and did just blah in some. On the hangar they at least made people wake up and take note of what the intended size of the ship really was. That unfortunately caused a backlash by people offended that their idea of an Enterprise even huuuuger than one as big as a carrier had been burst, which led to the ridiculousness of the JJ-prise, Disco-scaling, and worse. And yet the original was 947 feet, as shown onscreen. And its hangar fit in that size ship.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b0/4f/62/b04f62d2ba21b85205370b5d5f6db728.jpg

 

[Warped9]

The grayness of it all also pissed me off.

 

[Maurice]

Listening to the interview done by Rossi about TOS-R, the team didn't bother to get a clear scope of work from CBS and ended up doing way more than was expected, thus spread themselves too thin because the project wasn't specced properly. Then there's the fact the guys in charge weren't VFX people and made a lot of poor choices in terms of camera work and broken directional continuity.

 

[Dukhat]

The fact that ships were overly detailed and recoloured in ways that were not done before is sufficient to show they did not adhere to TOS’ aesthetic. That fact that ships were not lighted to recreate how things were originally lighted shows they did not adhere to TOS’ aesthetic. The fact they were creating scenes that could not possibly have been filmed back in the day shows the original practice in showing how ships moved was trashed,

All sorts of examples are available, but what they did to the hangar deck and shuttlecraft is a perfect example. The TOS-R versions of hangar and shuttlecraft look like shit.

The Klingon D7 also looks like shit.

Bottom line: CBS wanted something that looked more like contemporary productions. The Okudas might have argued for something different, but ultimately their voices didn’t carry the day. I have no idea because I wasn’t there. All I have to go by is the finished product. Some wins, but a lot of misses.

I think we have different definitions of 'aesthetic.' When I say that CBS adhered to the TOS aesthetic, I mean that, say, in "Friday's Child," instead of inserting a CGI Bird of Prey from STIII into the shot, they used a ship that was more in line with what we would see in the TOS era (the use of a D7 when the dialogue mentioned that the vessel was supposed to be a scout ship notwithstanding.) Or not using a ship like the U.S.S. Grissom from STIII as the Antares in "Charlie X." Or using a design for Mudd's Class J cargo ship that looked like it came from the TOS era, as opposed to the Class J cargo ship designed for ENT. I don't recall a single instance of TOS-R using a ship that didn't look out of place for the time period. The only one I can think of that even comes close is the over-detailed Tholian webspinners as opposed to the more basic (but effective) original models. Your definition of 'aesthetic,' referring more to lighting and movement, while a valid criticism, is not as important to me as maintaining a good design continuity for the era the show is supposed to take place in. Which is why the design choices for DSC annoyed me so much.

 

[Warped9]

The Tholian webspinner was atrocious. There is simply no way anything like that would have been envisioned originally.

And that is the essential point.

 

[Warped9]

And we're off. I thought I'd share a peek at how this Class J is starting. Note that I initially don't plan to put a lot of detail. I will try to get the shape right and maybe paint a few telling details, but this is meant to be seen mostly at a distance and look okay enough to pass on a 24-27in. CRT screen.

As I thought about the general concept of a smallish cargo transport I kept thinking about a boat. So the basic idea was to graft a somewhat boat shaped hull onto the bottom of a spaceship. The shape isn't really as complicated as it might appear.



OMG! It kinda looks like a sperm head!

Oh, well. If Kirk can fight androids with a phallic looking stalactite then who is gonna care?

 

[Warped9]

Thoughts?

Totally by chance I noticed something when looking at this in front or rear elevation, and you can see it here in the aft view angle: it looks like the cross section of a wooden stair handrail. I hadn't intended that, but picture someone grabbing a leftover piece of wooden handrail and having the inspration to cut and carve the ends of it into the right shape, then add a few odds and ends to it then painting—Presto, spaceship!

 

[BK613]

Its bow with those windows gives a USS Seaview vibe.

 

[Warped9]

Its bow with those windows gives a USS Seaview vibe.

Yeah, that occurred to me. And we need to remember VTTBOTS had been on TV since 1964 at this point.

I can tweak the shape of the windows. But I think it’s more the addition of the navigational dome on that bow shape that echoes the Seaview. I could also tweak the shape and change the colour of the deflector so it looks less like a oversized bow light.

I am trying for something somewhat rudimentary that could be massaged into a workable shape and pass for a quick glimpse onscreen. But you can get only so rudimentary to the point of absurd .

 

[Warped9]

The nacelles, support pylons, fins on upper side and impulse engine I envisioned being cut and shaped from scraps of wood. The main hull I also envisioned as shaped from a wood leftover of some kind, maybe a piece of handrail. So this miniature would be on the smallish side and likely about six inches to a foot in length. The impulse ports, aft access gangway and windows could simply be painted on. Shown in motion at a distance I think it could pass on a period CRT screen. With a bit more time maybe a few other details could be painted on or added with bits of odds-and-ends.

Then, in an alternate universe, fans would spend years trying to figure out what this was supposed to really look like and on the hunt for rare photos of the miniature.

 

[STEPhon IT]

It looks fantastic. It has a runabout feel to it so far, I'm a HUGE fan of runabouts so I am so there THERE for what you're creating. The propulsion units look amazing but I was wondering what this design might look like if the propulsion units were a little shorter where the ends are within the end of the aft section?

 

[Warped9]

It does follow Jefferies’ thinking that nacelles should be set apart from the hull. I was envisioning this as a two deck affair with the lower section having the access gangway and housing the bulk of the cargo holds. The upper section has the engineering area aft and the habitable area and cockpit forward.

 

[publiusr]

Points the way towards TMP...those nacelles

 

[Warped9]

Points the way towards TMP...those nacelles

Also similar to what would be seen later on the Klingon D7.

 

[Warped9]

Okay. Tweaked the forward windows. Changed the navigational dome into a more conventional dish--my guess is this could be a coat button with a nail through it and painted. Also added a bit more detail on the underside as well as a little extra colouring on the upper hull for a little more visual texture.

At this point I don't want to go any further with it because I would then be making it look too detailed for something that is supposed to be worked up reasonably quickly.

For some reason I'm thinking the ship should be named Scoundrel. And given the modest size of this ship I don’t envision t having a transporter hence the nod to some sense of aerodynamics to land on a planet surface.

 

[publiusr]

You have the feel of the era down to a T

 

[Bernard Guignard]

Very nice work looking forward to the orthos of the completed model Would be nice to
see the inside fleshed out a bit also I like small ships like this

 

[Warped9]

The overall colour of the hull is supposedly similar to an accent colour used on the 11ft. Enterprise miniature. I might explore a different colour such as something more blue, green, yellow or orange.

 

[Henoch]

The overall colour of the hull is supposedly similar to an accent colour used on the 11ft. Enterprise miniature. I might explore a different colour such as something more blue, green, yellow or orange.

... or whiter.

 

[Warped9]

Mudd’s ship onscreen was an indeterminate shape that looked white back in the day. At best it looked somewhat ovoid like a disc seen edge on. Later remastered images seem to lend the shape a yellow or gold tint. Even so the object never moved all over the screen like an aircraft or like the TOS-R version did.

I rewatched the opening scenes of the episode to see how a more defined miniature could be used within the context of existing footage. Mind you if they had had a better miniature they might have made the effort to show us at least one decent view of it.

The episode opens in the midst of the Enterprise pursuing the small transport and when we first glimpse the craft it’s at a distance trying to flee. It soon moves to enter an asteroid field. It’s possible that a two or three second shot of the miniature in flight could be slipped into the existing footage. On the bridge viewscreen we would see the aft end of the craft, but when its engines blow we could see a different orientation. When the craft hits an asteroid we could simply see a flash of light much as we did originally.