Unseen TOS....
- Thread starter Warped9
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Okay, call me weird, but before I start on something a bit more elaborate for the Class J cargo ship from “Mudd’s Women” I‘m indulging in a mental exercise trying to envision what I could cobble together from scrap wood in the garage as well as odds and ends around the house and what I could pick up from the local crafts store (Michael’s) or Home Depot.
Call it film prop making dirt cheap. The challenge here is recognizing if whatever I find, beyond scrap wood, could have been around in 1966.
Call it film prop making dirt cheap. The challenge here is recognizing if whatever I find, beyond scrap wood, could have been around in 1966.
You didn’t see many plastic pallets back then. I would like to cut those apart for ships. I’ve seen detailed planes out of Manila folders...but the *thinking* is too modern. You have captured the mindset of the era.
Lots of lathes...what do you cut raw material into. Me? I let shapes call out to me such that I wish I had a handiman carve out a whole shape just for one greeble. But seeing how cool shapes fit together wasn’t what they did back then.
Look at books on concept cars of the era. It was all about sculpting. D-7 is as far from a Star Destroyer as you could find. Furniture, curving table-legs...
One of my favorite comic books was Iron Wolf and there was a ship called the Limerick Rake. Pre Star Wars...all flow...no Battlestar contamination...that may be your path...
Lots of lathes...what do you cut raw material into. Me? I let shapes call out to me such that I wish I had a handiman carve out a whole shape just for one greeble. But seeing how cool shapes fit together wasn’t what they did back then.
Look at books on concept cars of the era. It was all about sculpting. D-7 is as far from a Star Destroyer as you could find. Furniture, curving table-legs...
One of my favorite comic books was Iron Wolf and there was a ship called the Limerick Rake. Pre Star Wars...all flow...no Battlestar contamination...that may be your path...
There's also the Cyrano Jones mini-ship they built for DS9's T&T, hanging out in K-7's landing bay. Granted, not technically TOS, but kind-of.
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Looks like it was built by the Pakleds.
I like seeing crappier ships flying around. It provides a nice contrast with the sleek advanced ones.
This is not *quite* true. 2001: A Space Odyssey was made contemporaneously with Star Trek and the kind of greeblie applications made famous by Star Wars were already happening all over that movie. Indeed, the filming miniature of the S.S. Botany Bay, though mostly carved out of wood, does have a handful of model car kit greeblies on it. So it shouldn't be totally off the table for theoretical 1960's Trek. It was just something that Matt Jefferies didn't usually prefer. But that doesn't mean he would *never* use them.
I think the big practical reason to avoid them is just how time consuming they can be. As someone who has made a study of Star Wars greeblies, I can assure you from experience of trying to replicate both the original models, and my own designs in the ILM style, it takes some time to get all that detail to look purposeful and functional and play in the light the way they need to. There are two factors that would this unlikely for Trek:
1) The show was always on a tight schedule. Taking time to lovingly apply hundreds of little bits can't be afforded.
2) The resolution of TV sets of the era would make it not worth the effort anyway.
But if you could whip something together in an afternoon out of scraps of lumber and something form the junk drawer, why wouldn't you? With 1960's broadcast technology, the silhouette is the important thing anyhow.
--Alex
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With 2001 they could take some extra time. By simply putting a cloth over Discovery and taking it off, they fooled Kubrick into thinking they made changes that, in fact, were never made...according to the recent book. There is a part of me that would want to take anything discarded by model makers as ugly...and see what I could make out of that.
The miniature for the Class J cargo ship doesn’t need to be that detailed given it’s seen from a distance. Mind you something a bit more fleshed out might allow for one quick pass across the screen. But for now the overall shape is what matters.
This isn’t a wholly new thought exercise for me. As a kid I often pondered using scraps to substitute not having a model kit to build. And even as an adult over the years things would jump out at me in the hardware store or even in the warehouse at work that would set my imagination turning.
I’m not discarding my initial concept sketch out of hand. I’m just pondering other possibilities before I commit one way or the other. Hell, it’s taken over a year for me to finally settle on which new alloy wheels I want on my car. Don’t worry—it certainly isn’t going to me that long to figure this out.
This isn’t a wholly new thought exercise for me. As a kid I often pondered using scraps to substitute not having a model kit to build. And even as an adult over the years things would jump out at me in the hardware store or even in the warehouse at work that would set my imagination turning.
I’m not discarding my initial concept sketch out of hand. I’m just pondering other possibilities before I commit one way or the other. Hell, it’s taken over a year for me to finally settle on which new alloy wheels I want on my car. Don’t worry—it certainly isn’t going to me that long to figure this out.
That and plywood are what starships are made from. Sonotubes. Any time you see a cured wall it is likely one. They are usually forms for concrete footings. Mylar sheeting was everywhere.
I
I recently came across an old roll of posters belonging to my parents from their halcyon days back in the 60’s. They were packed away in a tough, rigid, cardboard shipping tube, approximately 2 feet long. I know it hails from that era because the postmark on the side of the tube reads 1964. I bet a couple of those would’ve made quick and cheap nacelles back during the filming of season one. Postage extra, of course.
I recently came across an old roll of posters belonging to my parents from their halcyon days back in the 60’s. They were packed away in a tough, rigid, cardboard shipping tube, approximately 2 feet long. I know it hails from that era because the postmark on the side of the tube reads 1964. I bet a couple of those would’ve made quick and cheap nacelles back during the filming of season one. Postage extra, of course.
And considerably more "substantial" than cardboard tubing.
Way back in the day before I got my first AMT Enterprise model kit (not even knowing yet it existed) I was trying to figure out how to make a three dimensional Enterprise with cardboard, like bristol board. The best my ten year old self could manage was a fold out version.
Hmm… After all these decades I should try to make one again.
Note: anyone trying this use a smaller 8x11 sheet of cardboard for rigidity. A large sheet of cardboard will have zero rigidity—droopy nacelles will be only one of your problems.
Hmm… After all these decades I should try to make one again.
Note: anyone trying this use a smaller 8x11 sheet of cardboard for rigidity. A large sheet of cardboard will have zero rigidity—droopy nacelles will be only one of your problems.
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A closer look at Antares tweaks. I changed the impulse exhaust ports and add a bit more detail. You can also see the whole aft end better. Some of the details I added as physical features could actually just be painted on considering how briefly this miniature would be seen onscreen and without any closeups.
Warped9, I must hand it to you, I appreciate your discipline in keeping your designs faithful to TOS. Every design you'd presented has put a big smile on my face.
Thank you, Sir.
Thank you, Sir.
^^ Thanks.
I will daresay if I were ever involved in again enhancing TOS for a remastering this is the route I’d take. That in hand with taking TOS’ aesthetic, making it pristine and filling in some of the blanks. That would mean also recreating TOS’ lighting and cinematography.
I will daresay if I were ever involved in again enhancing TOS for a remastering this is the route I’d take. That in hand with taking TOS’ aesthetic, making it pristine and filling in some of the blanks. That would mean also recreating TOS’ lighting and cinematography.
I think Michael Okuda and the other people involved at CBS with TOS-R did a pretty faithful job adhering to the TOS aesthetic, especially when it came to designing ships that were previously not seen in the original version. However, in retrospect I wish they hadn't changed designs that were seen previously. Yes I know that the Aurora was just the Tholian ship flipped backwards with nacelles attached, but rather than just change the design completely, I would have liked if they'd just extrapolated upon the original design to make it look a little more realistic as a Federation (or possibly even Starfleet) space cruiser, but kept the same overall shape.
The fact that ships were overly detailed and recoloured in ways that were not done before is sufficient to show they did not adhere to TOS’ aesthetic. That fact that ships were not lighted to recreate how things were originally lighted shows they did not adhere to TOS’ aesthetic. The fact they were creating scenes that could not possibly have been filmed back in the day shows the original practice in showing how ships moved was trashed,
All sorts of examples are available, but what they did to the hangar deck and shuttlecraft is a perfect example. The TOS-R versions of hangar and shuttlecraft look like shit.
The Klingon D7 also looks like shit.
Bottom line: CBS wanted something that looked more like contemporary productions. The Okudas might have argued for something different, but ultimately their voices didn’t carry the day. I have no idea because I wasn’t there. All I have to go by is the finished product. Some wins, but a lot of misses.
All sorts of examples are available, but what they did to the hangar deck and shuttlecraft is a perfect example. The TOS-R versions of hangar and shuttlecraft look like shit.
The Klingon D7 also looks like shit.
Bottom line: CBS wanted something that looked more like contemporary productions. The Okudas might have argued for something different, but ultimately their voices didn’t carry the day. I have no idea because I wasn’t there. All I have to go by is the finished product. Some wins, but a lot of misses.
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