But that doesn't necessarily mean that they form the organs, just that they can fool the sensors. Data's mother could fool tricorders and even the transporter into showing her as human and yet she was a robot. In "Rules Of Engagement" the Klingons send false sensor readings making it look like there were 400 people when there wasn't anybody. Do not confuse perception and the real thing.
My DS9 Rewatch Odyssey
- Thread starter ananta
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But that doesn't necessarily mean that they form the organs, just that they can fool the sensors. Data's mother could fool tricorders and even the transporter into showing her as human and yet she was a robot. In "Rules Of Engagement" the Klingons send false sensor readings making it look like there were 400 people when there wasn't anybody. Do not confuse perception and the real thing.
The scant evidence is in my favor: the changeling imitation was not skin deep, but included the imitation of human substances, like blood.
I don't think so. I think Sisko's father was right when the Martok changeling pretended to cut his hand and let out blood it was likely the blood of someone else that he had stored inside his body. His fake blood (as Odo said ) would have turned into goo the instant it left his body.
I wasn't referring to WOTW. I was referring to The Adversary--Eddington's faked blood test clearly shows that the Founder's substance was stable blood before returning to its undifferentiated state.
I don't think so. It looks like blood when it leaves the body but we have no way of knowing what it is like when it's inside the body. Bashir clearly said that they are NO ORGANS inside. When Odo is transformed into a solid Bashir is flabbergasted to read organs on his tricorder. Why would he be if it was the normal state of Odo? The only conclusion we can draw is that in his normal state Odo is filled with goo, mimicking blood whenever he's cut and then turning back to goo again once it's separated. A surface simulation only.
Odo clearly states that his abilities are inferior to those of more mature changelings (The Adversary). The "punishment" was not a reflection of Odo's abilities, but the Founder's abilities to manipulate their substance into functional organs.
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Well, since they're no further proofs that either you or I are right, at this point it's just a matter of personal opinion.
That is a very good point, and I always wondered how they were able to accomplish that. It makes sense they held Odo as a solid form, organs included, and just locked it, for lack of a better term, because they are able to make functional organs all along.
There is one other thing to note... while he was combined with Curzon, we see him drink. No mess occured that we saw.
“INDISCRETION”
“I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and it gets everywhere...”
In some respects, it’s a wonder the writers have waited this long to pair up Kira and Dukat, what with the immense potential for fireworks. Admittedly, “Indiscretion” is a low-key affair and not nearly as explosive as you might expect, and while I consider this a good episode, I do have some reservations.
Everything is nicely set up, and I’ve always had a fondness for quest-type episodes where we set off on a journey to either find or recover something, or someone. Alas, due to the Nineties’ budget, these episodes often end up a little underwhelming in terms of locale, and you can bet that a fair amount of the episode will be set on either a runabout or in the dreary old cave set. This episode has both, although it does treat us to some impressive location work, complete with a ship crashed in the desert. It’s something I don’t think we’ve seen on Trek before and it looks really neat, which is probably why the writers do the very same thing next season, in “The Ship.”
Kira’s quest for her friend is one of the more anticlimactic aspects of the episode and, for whatever reason, didn’t really feel that compelling to begin with. That’s maybe because we all know that real focus is on the Dukat storyline. Nana Visitor and Marc Alaimo are great throughout; two actors with real screen presence and an engaging kind of anti-chemistry. The producers were definitely trying to tone back and “feminise” Kira a bit more this season, what with a catsuit and high heels that in precisely NO universe would ever pass for a military uniform, and the softened, freshly coiffed hair. If we’d had Kira and Dukat paired up in the first three seasons we could pretty much have guaranteed a tense and emotive confrontation over Dukat’s role in the Occupation and an examination of Kira’s trauma and hatred of this man who was the very face of Cardassia. Instead, Kira is remarkably restrained for the most part, even when Dukat casually remarks that in many ways the Occupation has benefited Bajor. How she didn’t punch his lights out I have no idea... I sure would have, and I’m one of the most laidback people you’re ever likely to meet. Fortunately, Nana Visitor still manages to provide glimpses of Kira’s passion and fire, particularly when she tells Dukat that if he harms his daughter in any way, she will kill him—and, gee, you believe her.
At this point in the series, I get the feeling the writers don’t really know quite what to do with Dukat. Certainly, Ziyal would become an important character in relation to Dukat for the next two seasons, so this is a pivotal part of his arc. Nevertheless, I don’t think any of it was planned in advance, and this latest attempt to “humanise” the character (and eventually turn him into a Klingon ass-kicking freedom fighter) seems a diversion that ultimately won’t pan out. Marc Alaimo plays the part with great earnestness and charm (indeed, according to Ira Behr, Alaimo actually believed Dukat was the unsung hero of the series) and I think the writers are responding to that. It almost feels like an attempt to prove that Dukat’s not REALLY that bad a guy—after all, at the very last minute, he decides not to ruthlessly murder his own daughter even though it’s gonna impact his career. Yeah, he’s a peach, that one...!
Alas, the attempt to present Dukat as a something of misunderstood hero ignores the fact he’s still an incredibly shady, nefarious narcissist who has gallons of blood on his hands. I can see what the writers were doing, and in a sense it’s quite Star Trekky, getting Kira to see that even the worst of villains are still people too..but I feel the episode sidesteps the horrors he’s responsible for in favour of scenes like the jarring thorn-in-ass scene which is both awkward and embarrassing (perhaps intentionally so).
The first time I watched this episode I was particularly concerned because it almost seemed the writers were implying some kind of sexual or romantic attraction between the two, which felt exceedingly off to me. Alaimo plays the closing scene as though Dukat and Kira are star-crossed lovers destined to be together, but it just comes across as incredibly unsettling and creepy. Yeah, he has a glib, superficial charm, but most narcissists and psychopaths do. We later see that Ziyal is the one person he does show genuine affection for (although that could well be because she offers him what they call a ‘narcissistic supply’ of attention and adulation). Anyway, it’s nice to see Ziyal make her debut; Cyia Batten being the first and, in my view, the best of the three actresses that would play her. If the episode feels a little open-ended, that’s because it is, and would receive a sequel of sorts mid-season with “Return to Grace”.
The sub-plot is kinda fun and sweet, largely because Avery Brooks and Penny Johnson are so wonderful together, even when they’re fighting. Oh, it’s pure sitcom stuff, but nevertheless nicely done and captures that slightly awkward stage when a relationship starts getting serious and a single inadvertent comment can have a great deal of repercussion. Rating: 7
“I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and it gets everywhere...”
In some respects, it’s a wonder the writers have waited this long to pair up Kira and Dukat, what with the immense potential for fireworks. Admittedly, “Indiscretion” is a low-key affair and not nearly as explosive as you might expect, and while I consider this a good episode, I do have some reservations.
Everything is nicely set up, and I’ve always had a fondness for quest-type episodes where we set off on a journey to either find or recover something, or someone. Alas, due to the Nineties’ budget, these episodes often end up a little underwhelming in terms of locale, and you can bet that a fair amount of the episode will be set on either a runabout or in the dreary old cave set. This episode has both, although it does treat us to some impressive location work, complete with a ship crashed in the desert. It’s something I don’t think we’ve seen on Trek before and it looks really neat, which is probably why the writers do the very same thing next season, in “The Ship.”
Kira’s quest for her friend is one of the more anticlimactic aspects of the episode and, for whatever reason, didn’t really feel that compelling to begin with. That’s maybe because we all know that real focus is on the Dukat storyline. Nana Visitor and Marc Alaimo are great throughout; two actors with real screen presence and an engaging kind of anti-chemistry. The producers were definitely trying to tone back and “feminise” Kira a bit more this season, what with a catsuit and high heels that in precisely NO universe would ever pass for a military uniform, and the softened, freshly coiffed hair. If we’d had Kira and Dukat paired up in the first three seasons we could pretty much have guaranteed a tense and emotive confrontation over Dukat’s role in the Occupation and an examination of Kira’s trauma and hatred of this man who was the very face of Cardassia. Instead, Kira is remarkably restrained for the most part, even when Dukat casually remarks that in many ways the Occupation has benefited Bajor. How she didn’t punch his lights out I have no idea... I sure would have, and I’m one of the most laidback people you’re ever likely to meet. Fortunately, Nana Visitor still manages to provide glimpses of Kira’s passion and fire, particularly when she tells Dukat that if he harms his daughter in any way, she will kill him—and, gee, you believe her.
At this point in the series, I get the feeling the writers don’t really know quite what to do with Dukat. Certainly, Ziyal would become an important character in relation to Dukat for the next two seasons, so this is a pivotal part of his arc. Nevertheless, I don’t think any of it was planned in advance, and this latest attempt to “humanise” the character (and eventually turn him into a Klingon ass-kicking freedom fighter) seems a diversion that ultimately won’t pan out. Marc Alaimo plays the part with great earnestness and charm (indeed, according to Ira Behr, Alaimo actually believed Dukat was the unsung hero of the series) and I think the writers are responding to that. It almost feels like an attempt to prove that Dukat’s not REALLY that bad a guy—after all, at the very last minute, he decides not to ruthlessly murder his own daughter even though it’s gonna impact his career. Yeah, he’s a peach, that one...!
Alas, the attempt to present Dukat as a something of misunderstood hero ignores the fact he’s still an incredibly shady, nefarious narcissist who has gallons of blood on his hands. I can see what the writers were doing, and in a sense it’s quite Star Trekky, getting Kira to see that even the worst of villains are still people too..but I feel the episode sidesteps the horrors he’s responsible for in favour of scenes like the jarring thorn-in-ass scene which is both awkward and embarrassing (perhaps intentionally so).
The first time I watched this episode I was particularly concerned because it almost seemed the writers were implying some kind of sexual or romantic attraction between the two, which felt exceedingly off to me. Alaimo plays the closing scene as though Dukat and Kira are star-crossed lovers destined to be together, but it just comes across as incredibly unsettling and creepy. Yeah, he has a glib, superficial charm, but most narcissists and psychopaths do. We later see that Ziyal is the one person he does show genuine affection for (although that could well be because she offers him what they call a ‘narcissistic supply’ of attention and adulation). Anyway, it’s nice to see Ziyal make her debut; Cyia Batten being the first and, in my view, the best of the three actresses that would play her. If the episode feels a little open-ended, that’s because it is, and would receive a sequel of sorts mid-season with “Return to Grace”.
The sub-plot is kinda fun and sweet, largely because Avery Brooks and Penny Johnson are so wonderful together, even when they’re fighting. Oh, it’s pure sitcom stuff, but nevertheless nicely done and captures that slightly awkward stage when a relationship starts getting serious and a single inadvertent comment can have a great deal of repercussion. Rating: 7
I'm gonna say that alongside f--- with O'Brien episode, there were f--- with Kira episodes. They often involved Cardassians.
Angels and ministers of grace, defend us!!!
I remember how Kasidy took offense at Sisko for not being pleased that she was going to stay close by. And Dukat having an illegitimate daughter with a Bajoran woman, and trying to convince Kira the Cardassian occupation was actually good for Bajor.
Also recall reading what Ananta said about Dukat --According to Ira Behr, Mark Alaimo never wavered from his belief that at heart, Dukat was an okay guy, he still felt there was good in him. “Until the very end, he wanted Dukat to be the hero of DS9.”
Also recall reading what Ananta said about Dukat --According to Ira Behr, Mark Alaimo never wavered from his belief that at heart, Dukat was an okay guy, he still felt there was good in him. “Until the very end, he wanted Dukat to be the hero of DS9.”
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Great review, as always.
The Sisko/Kasidy plot was something I liked when I was younger, but I fully appreciate it as a married man. Every married man here can relate to Sisko in this instance... a single comment can easily go south very quickly. I've learned that the hard way, as I'm certain everyone else here has. It was a needed story to keep that going, and it was a fun one to watch.
I agree with you that a Kira/Dukat episode was overdue. At the same time, I think this was a perfect time for it, because she would have killed him. Or at the very least, decked him a couple times. So this already shows a huge amount of growth for her from the pilot.
Dukat... there is no bigger narcissitic person in the franchise. His worldview is so skewed that there is no hope of him being good. This season of 'good' is a side quest for Dukat. But it all still played to his ego... he cares for Ziyal because she adores hin fully, and since she is half Bajoran, it makes it feel like the things he did in the Occupation were forgiven. His quest to find the Klingons was nothing more than him trying to look like a hero.
The Sisko/Kasidy plot was something I liked when I was younger, but I fully appreciate it as a married man. Every married man here can relate to Sisko in this instance... a single comment can easily go south very quickly. I've learned that the hard way, as I'm certain everyone else here has. It was a needed story to keep that going, and it was a fun one to watch.
I agree with you that a Kira/Dukat episode was overdue. At the same time, I think this was a perfect time for it, because she would have killed him. Or at the very least, decked him a couple times. So this already shows a huge amount of growth for her from the pilot.
Dukat... there is no bigger narcissitic person in the franchise. His worldview is so skewed that there is no hope of him being good. This season of 'good' is a side quest for Dukat. But it all still played to his ego... he cares for Ziyal because she adores hin fully, and since she is half Bajoran, it makes it feel like the things he did in the Occupation were forgiven. His quest to find the Klingons was nothing more than him trying to look like a hero.
I agree that she should have punched his lights out when he said that. That was so out of character when she kept her cool after hearing something so outrageous. To Sisko, it would be like saying that the borg invasion was a good thing. If Dukat had said anything like that in his presence Sisko would have beat him to a pulp!!!
“REJOINED”
“Nothing can possibly go wrong...KHAAAAAAAAN it?!”
I’ve been quite vocal in my dislike of Star Trek’s romance of the week formula, something that’s been relentlessly thrown at us for decades, in spite of the fact that 90% of the time it fails—MIS-ER-ABLY! I realise now that part of the problem is that, despite the progressive and generally intelligent nature of the franchise, the Star Trek writers have always tended to have a rather immature understanding of what constitutes “love”. If the show was an adolescent-themed soap opera then I could understand it; a character falls head over heels then this wonderful “love affair” is portrayed as the most important thing ever and they’re willing to sacrifice everything for their newfound soulmate. I call BS. That isn’t love. It’s infatuation.
What generally happens in Trek’s romance of the week episodes is that a character meets someone with whom they have or develop an attraction, their brain releases certain chemicals and they get horny and infatuated. At this point I’m fed up with supposedly adult Star Trek characters behaving like obsessive teenagers who fall in love every few months with “the one” (an especially egregious example was last season’s “Meridian”: “But he reeeeeally is the one, Benjamin! So I’m gonna throw in my career, my home, family and friends just to beeeeee with him, otherwise my life isn’t worth living!”). I dunno when I became such a cynic, but I guess I have a much more grounded view of romance these days. The early stages of a relationship are tinged with fantasy, and are largely characterised by what they call “New Relationship Energy” (defined as the “state of mind experienced at the beginning of sexual and romantic relationships, typically involving heightened emotional and sexual feelings and excitement”). It doesn’t last! Pretty soon, we start to see the actual person we’re now with, free of idealistic fantasies and both parties projecting an idealised version of who they are. What happens after that—well, that is love; when you see the other person as they actually are, warts and all, and decide that you want to share your life with them.
My point is it was about time that Star Trek grew up when it came to its depiction of relationships. Miles and Keiko were a good start, with O’Brien being Trek’s first married regular character. Even better are Sisko and Kasidy, whose natural, mature chemistry simply sparkles in every scene. I appreciated that, following some dire second and third season romance-of-the weeks, the DS9 writers were finally committed to showing ongoing relationships that develop at a natural pace and without making the characters seem like impetuous, horn-dog teens.
And along comes “Rejoined”, which marvellously transcends the limitations of the romance of the week formula. This is one of the most beautiful, powerful and affecting love stories Trek has ever done because it isn’t just about one character getting the hots for another and vainly expecting the audience to be on the edge of their seats about it. It’s a story about genuine love; a love that survives beyond a single lifetime. The fact it happens to be between two female characters (or female bodies, at least) is completely irrelevant to its success. It’s a touching, sensitively written tale about former spouses whose paths again cross decades or perhaps centuries later, and their meeting rekindles the bond they previously shared. It’s like meeting up with an ex and realising that you’re still the same people, with the same spark and the same feelings for each other, but knowing that things have changed so much it’s impossible to go back to what you had.
As a gay guy growing up in the Nineties, this episode meant a heck of a lot to me. Back then, there was virtually no LGBT representation on TV or film unless it was crude stereotype or camp comic relief—and certainly nothing on the otherwise progressive Trek. It was a different world in many respects. I wasn’t ready to deal with that part of my nature because it left me feeling very alone, scared and self-hating. I was convinced if anyone found out it would be the end of the world and I actually thought there was something very wrong with me, and that I’d be disowned by family and friends if they ever found out. Along with a brief scene in “Rules of Acquisition”, however, “Rejoined” made a bold and quietly ground-breaking statement by making the matter of same sex attraction a...complete non-issue! It’s not even talked about and the implication is that love is love and isn’t strictly defined by sex. That was about as bold as Star Trek would get in terms of sexuality; that, and its willingness to show Trek’s first same sex kiss. While girl on girl smooching could sometimes be somewhat salaciously and cynically by TV and filmmakers (including, arguably, DS9 itself in the seventh season stinker “The Emperor’s New Cloak”) the fact is it’s simply a natural part of this story and the fact it’s treated no differently to, say, Dax kissing Deral, is important. In fact, Dax and Lenara have far more chemistry than Dax and Deral ever did—so ironically, it was the latter that felt forced and unnatural.
The Trill “Reassociation” taboo is clearly an allegory for the way gay people have been viewed and treated by society, and, unfortunately, often still are. It’s a neat parallel that works because it’s subtle and never explicitly spelt out, which might have rendered the episode a tad heavy-handed. In that respect, it’s an infinitely more successful episode than TNG’s well-meaning but woefully misconceived “The Outcast”.
Terry Farrell gives her finest performance of the series, and Suzanna Thompson is similarly excellent as Lenara. Avery Brooks continues to prove himself one of the show’s top directors (if not my favourite, I have to say) and also gives a tremendous performance in the Dax/Sisko scene in his office, which definitely must rank in my top ten moments of the entire series. It’s just wonderfully executed, and the relationship feels genuine, from the awkward, tentative initial interaction at the reception to the pained final scene between the couple. Lenara’s brother and her disapproving older colleague are both quite well characterised and played, and Michael Eddington even pops up...well, for no discernible reason. The sub-plot is a bit of a technobabble bore; the kind of limp “jeopardy” B-plot TNG would habitually pair with a character driven A-plot. But it serves its purpose and the focus is firmly on character. Overall, a powerful and meaningful episode and one of the best genuine love stories Trek ever did tell. Rating: 9
“Nothing can possibly go wrong...KHAAAAAAAAN it?!”
I’ve been quite vocal in my dislike of Star Trek’s romance of the week formula, something that’s been relentlessly thrown at us for decades, in spite of the fact that 90% of the time it fails—MIS-ER-ABLY! I realise now that part of the problem is that, despite the progressive and generally intelligent nature of the franchise, the Star Trek writers have always tended to have a rather immature understanding of what constitutes “love”. If the show was an adolescent-themed soap opera then I could understand it; a character falls head over heels then this wonderful “love affair” is portrayed as the most important thing ever and they’re willing to sacrifice everything for their newfound soulmate. I call BS. That isn’t love. It’s infatuation.
What generally happens in Trek’s romance of the week episodes is that a character meets someone with whom they have or develop an attraction, their brain releases certain chemicals and they get horny and infatuated. At this point I’m fed up with supposedly adult Star Trek characters behaving like obsessive teenagers who fall in love every few months with “the one” (an especially egregious example was last season’s “Meridian”: “But he reeeeeally is the one, Benjamin! So I’m gonna throw in my career, my home, family and friends just to beeeeee with him, otherwise my life isn’t worth living!”). I dunno when I became such a cynic, but I guess I have a much more grounded view of romance these days. The early stages of a relationship are tinged with fantasy, and are largely characterised by what they call “New Relationship Energy” (defined as the “state of mind experienced at the beginning of sexual and romantic relationships, typically involving heightened emotional and sexual feelings and excitement”). It doesn’t last! Pretty soon, we start to see the actual person we’re now with, free of idealistic fantasies and both parties projecting an idealised version of who they are. What happens after that—well, that is love; when you see the other person as they actually are, warts and all, and decide that you want to share your life with them.
My point is it was about time that Star Trek grew up when it came to its depiction of relationships. Miles and Keiko were a good start, with O’Brien being Trek’s first married regular character. Even better are Sisko and Kasidy, whose natural, mature chemistry simply sparkles in every scene. I appreciated that, following some dire second and third season romance-of-the weeks, the DS9 writers were finally committed to showing ongoing relationships that develop at a natural pace and without making the characters seem like impetuous, horn-dog teens.
And along comes “Rejoined”, which marvellously transcends the limitations of the romance of the week formula. This is one of the most beautiful, powerful and affecting love stories Trek has ever done because it isn’t just about one character getting the hots for another and vainly expecting the audience to be on the edge of their seats about it. It’s a story about genuine love; a love that survives beyond a single lifetime. The fact it happens to be between two female characters (or female bodies, at least) is completely irrelevant to its success. It’s a touching, sensitively written tale about former spouses whose paths again cross decades or perhaps centuries later, and their meeting rekindles the bond they previously shared. It’s like meeting up with an ex and realising that you’re still the same people, with the same spark and the same feelings for each other, but knowing that things have changed so much it’s impossible to go back to what you had.
As a gay guy growing up in the Nineties, this episode meant a heck of a lot to me. Back then, there was virtually no LGBT representation on TV or film unless it was crude stereotype or camp comic relief—and certainly nothing on the otherwise progressive Trek. It was a different world in many respects. I wasn’t ready to deal with that part of my nature because it left me feeling very alone, scared and self-hating. I was convinced if anyone found out it would be the end of the world and I actually thought there was something very wrong with me, and that I’d be disowned by family and friends if they ever found out. Along with a brief scene in “Rules of Acquisition”, however, “Rejoined” made a bold and quietly ground-breaking statement by making the matter of same sex attraction a...complete non-issue! It’s not even talked about and the implication is that love is love and isn’t strictly defined by sex. That was about as bold as Star Trek would get in terms of sexuality; that, and its willingness to show Trek’s first same sex kiss. While girl on girl smooching could sometimes be somewhat salaciously and cynically by TV and filmmakers (including, arguably, DS9 itself in the seventh season stinker “The Emperor’s New Cloak”) the fact is it’s simply a natural part of this story and the fact it’s treated no differently to, say, Dax kissing Deral, is important. In fact, Dax and Lenara have far more chemistry than Dax and Deral ever did—so ironically, it was the latter that felt forced and unnatural.
The Trill “Reassociation” taboo is clearly an allegory for the way gay people have been viewed and treated by society, and, unfortunately, often still are. It’s a neat parallel that works because it’s subtle and never explicitly spelt out, which might have rendered the episode a tad heavy-handed. In that respect, it’s an infinitely more successful episode than TNG’s well-meaning but woefully misconceived “The Outcast”.
Terry Farrell gives her finest performance of the series, and Suzanna Thompson is similarly excellent as Lenara. Avery Brooks continues to prove himself one of the show’s top directors (if not my favourite, I have to say) and also gives a tremendous performance in the Dax/Sisko scene in his office, which definitely must rank in my top ten moments of the entire series. It’s just wonderfully executed, and the relationship feels genuine, from the awkward, tentative initial interaction at the reception to the pained final scene between the couple. Lenara’s brother and her disapproving older colleague are both quite well characterised and played, and Michael Eddington even pops up...well, for no discernible reason. The sub-plot is a bit of a technobabble bore; the kind of limp “jeopardy” B-plot TNG would habitually pair with a character driven A-plot. But it serves its purpose and the focus is firmly on character. Overall, a powerful and meaningful episode and one of the best genuine love stories Trek ever did tell. Rating: 9
Good analysis! It really is ALL about his self-image, isn’t it? Fascinating and scary (that there are a great many people like this out there).
I didn’t actually remember that moment from the episode because it’s over so swiftly and isn’t picked up on at all, but it really is one of the most horrifically tone deaf and abhorrent statements I’ve ever heard on Trek; kind of like a Nazi telling a Jew to look at the “silver lining” of the Holocaust. How Kira let that pass I have no idea.
