Spoilers 31st/32nd Century Ships Revealed

[Timo]

Or then there is no implication.

After all, assuming of refits hinges on assuming, utterly baselessly, that the design we see is a refitted one. The default assumption would be that the ship is as it always was, since nothing else is stated. Beyond this, we apply our own default ideas. Which in this case appear simple enough...

There's no reason for Vance to be specific: "The Tikhov still flies" is simply sufficient information. And the Tikhov we see is a modern-looking ship with a suffix, just like every other Starfleet vessel. Should we assume that every Starfleet vessel is an old one a dozen times refitted? If so, why?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

Should we assume that every Starfleet vessel is an old one a dozen times refitted?

No, just the ones that were specifically mentioned as being the same ship, like Vance makes clear about the Tikhov, and our eyes make clear about the Discovery.

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Not just our eyes - Saru said it was the same ship after the refit in-dialog during his first log entry after the upgrade and it was given an "-A" suffix along with a fresh coat of paint. That's pretty much on-screen canonical proof, as far as I can tell. They just seemed to have changed the "rules" of registry suffix naming somewhere along the way in the past 900 years. They're allowed, I think!

 

[Timo]

No, just the ones that were specifically mentioned as being the same ship, like Vance makes clear about the Tikhov, and our eyes make clear about the Discovery.

Those are rather different beasts, though - one is an A (unlike any other) while the other is an M (like pretty much every other, these apparently ranging from J at the lowest, to said letter). Bunching up the M with her ilk just sounds like the default thing to do.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ronald Held]

Was any SF data lost in the Burn,or corrupted?

 

[Dukhat]

Those are rather different beasts, though - one is an A (unlike any other) while the other is an M (like pretty much every other, these apparently ranging from J at the lowest, to said letter). Bunching up the M with her ilk just sounds like the default thing to do.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. The specific letter has nothing to do with anything, other than to show the number of times that the ship has been refitted, in the Discovery’s case once, and in the Tikhov’s case thirteen times.

 

[DEWLine]

Tikhov-M is the latest ship to carry the name. Out of fourteen built between 2161 to 3189.
Sigh...

 

[F. King Daniel]

Remember when Enterprise started and people were unhappy NX-01 meant first NX-class ship and not an experimental registry for an Enterprise-class? The rules change all the time. Now, at some point from Picard-era onwards refits got a suffix.

 

[Dukhat]

Tikhov-M is the latest ship to carry the name. Out of fourteen built between 2161 to 3189.
Sigh...

Not according to the dialogue.

 

[DEWLine]

Please. Established tradition as shown by the Starships Enterprise.

 

[Tuskin38]

Please. Established tradition as shown by the Starships Enterprise.

Apparently that tradition has changed.

 

[Dukhat]

Please. Established tradition as shown by the Starships Enterprise.

So tell me why the Discovery got an ‘A’ suffix when it’s the same ship.

 

[dupersuper]

So tell me why the Discovery got an ‘A’ suffix when it’s the same ship.

The A in Ephraim and Dot needed more work?

 

[Markonian]

But that means Starfleet never had another USS Discovery for 900 years inbetween?

No, it means Starfleet didn't have another NCC-1031 in between.

Tikhov-M is the latest ship to carry the name. Out of fourteen built between 2161 to 3189.
Sigh...

Exactly. Burnham mentions the original Tikhov as a specialized seed ship. Vance advises her the Tikhov is still flying, i.e. seed ship project remains ongoing and an a ship named Tikhov still carries out that mission.

Edit: Let me rephrase it. Imagine Commander Burnham said, "In my time, the Enterprise was the flagship of Starfleet". Vance replies, "Yes, the Enterprise is still flying," indicating in this context that an Enterprise (but ships always use the definite article) is still serving as Starfleet's flagship.

So tell me why the Discovery got an ‘A’ suffix when it’s the same ship.

Because history books record the NCC-1031 was destroyed at Xahea in 2258. To keep historical and at the time secret files intact, Discovery is made its own successor.

 

[Timo]

I have no idea what you’re talking about. The specific letter has nothing to do with anything, other than to show the number of times that the ship has been refitted, in the Discovery’s case once, and in the Tikhov’s case thirteen times.

Which is the difference. If thirteen refits is the new normal, then all Starfleet ships with letters in that range are refits until otherwise proven. Which is sort of silly, because Starfleet still retains the pseudo-Constitution antiques as of S3 (aka immediate pre-Burn, assuming little has happened since), which shouldn't be if multi-refitting is the norm and loose-nacelled designs are preferred.

The 1031-A is an explicit special case in quite a number of ways. So treating her registry as a special case is attractive an sich, especially as the letter is A, meaning we're dealing with a precedent of sorts rather than a generations-long tradition. The 1076-M is special only in the sense of a single piece of dialogue, and then only if we choose to read Vance a particular way; otherwise, it blends in with the masses.

So far, there hasn't been much material on the suffix letters. Before DSC, anything outside the Enterprise context was kept super-obscure (Nash, say) or even quietly undone (Yamato). Since the Enterprises form a continuum with no intervening non-suffix ships of that name, we can tell this is possible - but not whether it would be possible to have such intervening ships. We also don't know if the E-A was the first ship to get a suffix (NCC-1305 sorta appears older...), and whether anything really changed at any point (NX-01A was both fictional and of a different format, NCC-1031-A could be due to those "original was recorded lost" or "Vance doesn't want to admit to time travel" super-special reasons).

It's something DSC might address at some point, as they do keep doing this backpedaling and/or let's-cover-our-gaffe thing (e.g. they gave us a detailed explanation in multiple parts on how Voq could pass for Tyler, eventually, long after some of us had given up hope). But probably won't. Which is fine, because they never did explain themselves with the suffixed Enterprises, either, and this helped make the hero ship special, which is usually a good thing. It never affected any "system", exactly because it was all about a special case. And there's no good reason to make the Tikhov part of the special case when it can remain part of the system that warrants no attention.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

No, that doesn’t mean anything. All it means is that the Tikhov got lucky enough to not be destroyed or lost over 900 years, so they didn’t need to build a new version, just refitted the old one. Another ship, say, the Voyager-I, could have been destroyed in action, which would necessitate the next Voyager to be a brand new ship but still have the next suffix letter in the line. But as for the show’s evidence, it seems that giving refits a suffix is the new norm unless otherwise stated (like because of the examples I gave above.)

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Things like what ship they're looking for are far from "needless" details. She would 110% need to know if she was boarding the ship she knew or a new build.

Like with so much else the fact that 23rd century Burnham was the one to pop a quick solution was a joke. Exact same scene could have been done with Vance bringing up the seed ship and giving the crew a mission

 

[F. King Daniel]

Like with so much else the fact that 23rd century Burnham was the one to pop a quick solution was a joke. Exact same scene could have been done with Vance bringing up the seed ship and giving the crew a mission

People would say the same when Janeway came up with a solution...

 

[Tuskin38]

But as for the show’s evidence, it seems that giving refits a suffix is the new norm unless otherwise stated

Nothing is stated one way or another. No one says the Tikov is a refit, Voyager-J is never said to be a refit.

One of the ships in the federation fleet appears to be NCC-1864-M, which would make it a USS Reliant.

 

[F. King Daniel]

One of the ships in the federation fleet appears to be NCC-1864-M, which would make it a USS Reliant.

Which is really bizarre, since why would Starfleet want to honour a ship infamous for being used by a terrorist?