Indeed. Though you would have to build mini-warp cores for each shuttle, as they all had warp capability.
Voyager inconsistencies.
- Thread starter Xhiandra
- Start date
Oh, dunno about that: in DS9 "The Sound of Her Voice", a warp core was specifically the thing the shuttle Chaffee didn't have, which is why it was suited for the special mission into the time planet there. Yet the Chaffee no doubt had warp, too: it had engine cowlings identical to the mothership, like all good shuttles have, and probably was flown at warp in "The Search" (albeit in a dream sequence!), plus had smaller siblings that explicitly had warp engines in "Destiny" and the like.
So warp cores might not be absolutely necessary for going to warp, not in shuttles. Perhaps they have this ion power thing going instead ("The Menagerie")?
But surely Janeway would falsify the records. After all, she very clearly did, declaring Tuvok and Vorik falsely dead and all. So her including the true fatality Suder for effect does not dictate that she would also include the true fatality Stadi. It's all a sham, probably indeed executed in order to give the Devore what they wanted to see: some telepaths (since the Federation has those), but not frighteningly many, and all safely dead.
The other option is that she falsified the fatalities only after the one inspection where the crew roster was captured. In which case the four would be a mere sampling, and Janeway would address only that sampling, it being implicit (and, in the freshly falsified records, explicit) that all the others were gruesomely dead, too...
I mean, there's a nuance there. Stadi and the rest would be "clean kills", all legitimately deceased. Tuvok and Vorik and the random Betazoid would be alive and in need of hiding. Which leaves Suder. Why wouldn't he be legitimately entered as not breathing? Well, he was a secret agent and all, for the last day of his life. Perhaps Janeway had engaged in some tomfoolery there, intending to downplay his crimes and make him look all the more a hero for the folks back home?
Timo Saloniemi
So warp cores might not be absolutely necessary for going to warp, not in shuttles. Perhaps they have this ion power thing going instead ("The Menagerie")?
But surely Janeway would falsify the records. After all, she very clearly did, declaring Tuvok and Vorik falsely dead and all. So her including the true fatality Suder for effect does not dictate that she would also include the true fatality Stadi. It's all a sham, probably indeed executed in order to give the Devore what they wanted to see: some telepaths (since the Federation has those), but not frighteningly many, and all safely dead.
The other option is that she falsified the fatalities only after the one inspection where the crew roster was captured. In which case the four would be a mere sampling, and Janeway would address only that sampling, it being implicit (and, in the freshly falsified records, explicit) that all the others were gruesomely dead, too...
I mean, there's a nuance there. Stadi and the rest would be "clean kills", all legitimately deceased. Tuvok and Vorik and the random Betazoid would be alive and in need of hiding. Which leaves Suder. Why wouldn't he be legitimately entered as not breathing? Well, he was a secret agent and all, for the last day of his life. Perhaps Janeway had engaged in some tomfoolery there, intending to downplay his crimes and make him look all the more a hero for the folks back home?
Timo Saloniemi
What if Q changed into a Klingon for having real sex with Janeway
I wouldn't put something like that past him. Remember he's a trickster 
I thought that when I was watching TNG (I only started watching Star Trek for the first time this year), but after Voyager I think I understand why: Out of the four Betazoid/part-Betazoid characters I can think of, only one of them was at all suited to that role.
Imagine someone like Deanna's mother as a ship's counselor. Or Shuder.
What if Q changed into a Klingon for having real sex with Janeway
Janeway could handle a Klingon just fine. She's JANEWAY, for crying out loud.
What even the double things? She's a tough cookie.
Hey the 37's. Wasn't that planet not M class so how can they breathe when they land? Or did I hear that wrong?
Janeway's patented Death Glare has multiple settings. One of the intermediate ones would probably be the equivalent of a hard jab with a Klingon pain stick.
When calculating inconsistency, you need to keep three things in mind.
1. Severity. How bad is it?
2. Duration. How long did it persist?
3. Necessity. Was there a legitimate reason for it?
As an example: Suder's confinement to quarters vs. Tom's getting the brig... not overly severe, IMO. It can be explained away: Tom was receiving correction. Suder was mentally ill. However, it occured over a long time. Was there a potential reason? Yes. Voyager might need a brig for enemy prisoners or disciplinary issues.
Torres and Paris... I don't really see an inconsistency there. Sucking face in a turbolift, or in engineering when B'Elanna is on duty: inappropriate. Doing it in private shouldn't be an issue.
I agree that Janeway's treatment of Harry in "The Disease" was hypocrisy, making it severe and unjustified. At least it was over quickly, and the reprimand was never mentioned again.
More later, using the same scale. Maybe.
When calculating inconsistency, you need to keep three things in mind.
1. Severity. How bad is it?
2. Duration. How long did it persist?
3. Necessity. Was there a legitimate reason for it?
As an example: Suder's confinement to quarters vs. Tom's getting the brig... not overly severe, IMO. It can be explained away: Tom was receiving correction. Suder was mentally ill. However, it occured over a long time. Was there a potential reason? Yes. Voyager might need a brig for enemy prisoners or disciplinary issues.
Torres and Paris... I don't really see an inconsistency there. Sucking face in a turbolift, or in engineering when B'Elanna is on duty: inappropriate. Doing it in private shouldn't be an issue.
I agree that Janeway's treatment of Harry in "The Disease" was hypocrisy, making it severe and unjustified. At least it was over quickly, and the reprimand was never mentioned again.
More later, using the same scale. Maybe.
All they had to do was say so, or make that more apparent. I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt to plot points and inconsistencies. But, when it is a major plot of limited torpedoes and limited shuttles and then they crash shuttles regularly and use torpedoes normally it's like "Why call it out?"
...It would seem that the farther away you get from M in either direction, alphabetically, the more difficult it is to live there, but one step away isn't fatal yet. Or at least Class N also seems to cater for a near-human lifestyle, with select limitations as per "Inheritance" and "Night Terrors" but nothing explicitly drastic. But Class K calls for domes rather than open-air camping, and might well describe Mars. Which only lacks breathable air and warmth but has comfortable pressure as of "Terra Prime"...
I trust the EMH could keep the heroes going in a wide variety of environments simply by giving them the appropriate injections, in case nobody was able to don a proper suit or dust off those TAS forcefield belts.
Timo Saloniemi
I trust the EMH could keep the heroes going in a wide variety of environments simply by giving them the appropriate injections, in case nobody was able to don a proper suit or dust off those TAS forcefield belts.
Timo Saloniemi
A few of the really awful ones...
Worst: Infinite shuttlecraft. What's really bad is that in "Alice", Tom is told "we have a full complement of shuttlecraft onboard, plus the Delta Flyer." How, when they've been LOSING THEM RIGHT AND LEFT?!
Severity: Appalling
Duration: Most of the series. Since I don't know how many shuttles Voyager carries, no exact figure is available.
Necessity: None. A 20-second scene about trading for an industrial replicator capable of fabricating shuttle parts will resolve it.
Also bad: Infinite torpedoes. Not as bad because they don't point it out the way they did the shuttles (aside from saying they had 38 early on)... they just keep firing torpedoes. Also, those sleek little torpedoes are probably easier to fabricate than bus-sized shuttles.
Severity: Bad
Duration: 4 years or so. Whenever they've fired 38 of them, and don't run dry.
Necessity: See my last.
Also Bad: Harry Kim's rank.
Severity: Moderate. More annoying than immersion-breaking.
Duration: 4-5 years (Harry should have been an ensign for 2-3).
Necessity: None. No argument defending this decision holds water.
Worst: Infinite shuttlecraft. What's really bad is that in "Alice", Tom is told "we have a full complement of shuttlecraft onboard, plus the Delta Flyer." How, when they've been LOSING THEM RIGHT AND LEFT?!
Severity: Appalling
Duration: Most of the series. Since I don't know how many shuttles Voyager carries, no exact figure is available.
Necessity: None. A 20-second scene about trading for an industrial replicator capable of fabricating shuttle parts will resolve it.
Also bad: Infinite torpedoes. Not as bad because they don't point it out the way they did the shuttles (aside from saying they had 38 early on)... they just keep firing torpedoes. Also, those sleek little torpedoes are probably easier to fabricate than bus-sized shuttles.
Severity: Bad
Duration: 4 years or so. Whenever they've fired 38 of them, and don't run dry.
Necessity: See my last.
Also Bad: Harry Kim's rank.
Severity: Moderate. More annoying than immersion-breaking.
Duration: 4-5 years (Harry should have been an ensign for 2-3).
Necessity: None. No argument defending this decision holds water.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the ship being self-sufficient. I mean, that's what we would expect of a starship. It's the odd shortage of torps in the first two seasons that raises eyebrows - but it highlights the obvious rationale, too, of the ship being broken for those first two seasons. Getting out of Kazon territory and into civilized space would help with that.
A ship with dwindling resources would have been a different story altogether. But probably not a Star Trek story, because the resources of a starship shouldn't dwindle.
Timo Saloniemi
A ship with dwindling resources would have been a different story altogether. But probably not a Star Trek story, because the resources of a starship shouldn't dwindle.
Timo Saloniemi
There was potential in the ship having limited resources, but they decided to go in a different direction. We got a piece of what it might have been like if Voyager was struggling for scraps on "Year of Hell" (until the ship was finally reduced to near wreckage), just as "Before and After" gave us a look at how Kes's life on Voyager might have played out (having her marry Tom and their daughter marry Harry was a great touch).
The direction they chose was to have Voyager have no support, but all the resources she needed. So be it.
The direction they chose was to have Voyager have no support, but all the resources she needed. So be it.
Building a shuttlecraft is no problem. Antimatter is.
And they can always trade for antimatter with friendly alien races they meet along the way.
I always get the feeling Voyager would have been better had they actually run low on important things and had to resort to extraneous measures to get more stuff, and become a bit more piraty in their travels, that would have IMHO made for a much more interesting show.
That was due to syndication, which is what the network wanted. So, we got references to supposed shortages and then "Magic!"
And, as @Oddish notes it just needs a simple reference to that fact. I'm OK filling in a lot of gaps but this is one that was called out as a problem from the word go.
"THE VOID" was a good look into what could have been for the show. Another reason why it's one of my favorites of season 7.
Bingo. I once acted out a scene where Janeway asks B'Elanna about the new industrial replicator they just traded for, then tells her to fabricate more torpedoes and make building shuttles second priority. It took about 30 seconds. They couldn't spare 30 seconds to painlessly resolve two of Voyager's biggest inconsistencies?
It's interesting to think about what Voyager would have looked like if it had been made in the last few years. It's got such a fantastic setup that unfortunately didn't fit quite so well with how TV was made back then, and it ended up having to sacrifice so much potential. In these days of binge watching, you can see it really making the most of that potential.
As for the inconsistencies with Janeway, I think they were very split on her character. It felt like they were trying to do Picard from TNG and Picard from the movies at the same time, so you'd get someone who went back and forth betweeen 'we're doing this in proper Starfleet fashion' to 'I'm gonna be a bit of a badass about this'. I never felt they quite settled on who they wanted her to be.
