Voyager inconsistencies.

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Xhiandra, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Xhiandra

    Xhiandra Commander Red Shirt

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    Crewmembers! Torpedoes! Kidding, I don't mean those inconsistencies.

    I'm on a VOY rewatch, and it strikes me again how inconsistent VOY can be compared to other series in the franchise. Don't get me wrong, the show has quite a few decent episodes and a few great ones, but it can be so inconsistent across episodes.
    There's the well-known fact that Janeway goes from "we're sticking to starfleet principles no matter what" to "we're overlooking starfleet principles to gain some advantage" back and forth, but beyond that, I've noticed some more I didn't remember:

    - Suder spent less time in the brig for cold-blooded murder than Paris for interfering in the internal affairs of another species.

    - Relationships among the crew seem to be viewed benevolently... until it's Torres and Paris, at which point it's taken very seriously. By everyone. You knew from the start of the episode that this time it'd be played for drama rather than comedy, quite the whiplash with the rest of the series.

    - Janeway chews Kim out for fraternising with an alien in "Disease", but she herself has done so in "Counterpoint". Sure, he went quite a bit further than her (sex vs a kiss), but the risks are present even with a kiss. Hell, fraternise with the wrong alien and you might get pregnant simply for putting your hands in a box of pebbles! So, it seems quite hypocritical on her part.

    Might pick some more in the future, I'm at "Disease", right now, so ~2.5 seasons to go.
     
  2. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commodore Commodore

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    How long was Suder confined to his quarters? A lot longer than 30 days, I thought. He had a mental illness, while Paris knew exactly what he was doing.

    We didn't see any other relationships forming, right? And I think Janeway pointed out that they are held to a higher standard as bridge officers.

    Janeway violated a few rules when she became weak, it's just part of her character.
     
  3. somebuddyx

    somebuddyx Captain Captain

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    Resolutions takes place over three months according to Memory Alpha and the period from post-Alliances/pre-Dreadnaught to Investigations is stated to be several weeks so Suder was confined to quarters at least 4 months.
     
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  4. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    The brig would serve just fine for 30 days lock up, but it was clear from the beginning Suder would be a captive a whole lot longer than that, hence a slightly friendlier alternative to the brig had to be considered for the longer term lockup (i.e. his quarters, under house arrest).

    They were almost flaunting their love affair while as senior officers, they were expected to show some restraint in public ... wasn't that the issue, rather than the relationship itself? (I don't know for certain, would have to rewatch it).

    Well, yes, but the pebble incident would not have happened 200 years before until a few years after Kim's little adventure, so Janeway wouldn't have known about that :)
     
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  5. Xhiandra

    Xhiandra Commander Red Shirt

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    I remember Janeway saying that, but it doesn't really make it true. Even then, you could first put him in the brig for say, a few months, then assign him to quarters on good behaviour / when he's making progress with Tuvok's therapy.

    But Tom and Harry talking about the Delaney sisters on the bridge isn't a matter that would require restraint?


    That specific incident, but one could easily imagine that, with all the strange occurences that have happened in space, a kiss could be quite dangerous as well.
     
  6. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    These two cases were very different. With Paris, it was a simple matter of disciplinary action that also lied well and comfortably within Janeway's bounds of authority. With Suder on the other hand, we are entering rather exceptional territory. First of all, incurably violent and mentally ill men in the Federation are supposed to be very or even incredibly rare so no-one would have had a lot of expertise with them. We do not know what exactly would have happened even if Suder had been completely 'healthy', had this murder occurred in the Alpha Quadrant (as in, whether the captain would have been authorised to mete out punishment or whether the case would have been referred to a highly specialised court, complete with psychiatrists and experts on any relevant field you'd care to mention. All in all, Janeway seems very uneasy with the case and very reticent to actually determine the measure of his punishment, and more concerned with simply locking him up so that he could do no more harm. But I'll agree that a significant part of this is open to interpretation.

    Fair point. Or perhaps the line is drawn somewhere between dating, and the relationship heading into more serious territory. I don't have a reasonable explanation for this right now, but perhaps I'll come up with something :)

    Anyway, what exact episode are we talking about where this Paris and Torres thing is taken too seriously? From the top of my head, I can only come up with Scientific Method and perhaps Blood Fever , but in both cases there were other factors involved.

    I was only joking there but I do in fact agree with you on this one. In Janeway's own words: There's a reason you took a semester of interspecies protocol at the Academy. There's also a reason why the Handbook on Personal Relationships is three centimetres thick.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  7. darrenjl

    darrenjl Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The one that annoys me is in Future's End Janeway says she has no idea what her ancestors were up to in 1996, yet two seasons later in 11:59 a whole episode is devoted to Janeway's ancestors in 1999.

    I can only chalk it up to the universe at the start of Year of Hell is not the same one that ends it; a slightly different alternate one that changes some back history.
     
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  8. garakvsneelix

    garakvsneelix Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Many years ago, I've read the theory, that every episode of VOY would play in another parallel universe. Only with this in mind, the alternating shuttle numbers and Janeway-hairstyles could be explained :D
     
  9. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Suder was confirmed to his quarters from Monday 22 May 2372 (Stardate 49390) to Sunday 14 January 2373 (Stardate 50037.2).

    Visit the Kes Website (link below) and klick on the link "Voyager Timeline" in the left frame for a Timeline for Voyager's seasons 1-3.

    As for relationships, I can guess that there could have been some of it among the people with lower ranks, which we never saw on screen.

    As for the main characters, they did seem to be very determined not to get involved in anything. Which may have been a smart move considering the situation they were in.

    Or was it just about the writers of Voyager having difficulties about creating, describing developing relationships. They did seem to be downright bad at it.

    The Kes-Neelix relationship is a good example. When they realized that it didn't work, they did nothing. It just faded in the background and when they finally realized that they had to something, they didn't even had the skill to come up with a proper end to it, just that pathetic event in "Warlord" (otherwise a good episode) when Kes dumps neelix while she is controlled by Tieran and that's it! No further explanations or anything. :shrug:

    The Paris-Torres relationship did seem to come out of nowhere too between two characters who didn't have much in common. But it did at least work in a way.

    However, I guess the main reason for it was that due to Seven becoming the main character, paris and torres had both being shoved in the background and the writers just had to come up with something to show that both of them at least were supposed to be two of the main characters in the show.

    And I won't even go into that Chakotay-Seven thing. So utterly stupid!
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  10. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    It is an inconsistency, but a minor one in my eyes, seeing as the Future's End line is just a single throwaway line and not relevant to the plot in any way (except perhaps for establishing how little Janeway knows about this era). You can find similar instances of such minor inconsistencies in all the series.
     
  11. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And Janeway was entirely clear that had events not intervened he would have stayed there until they returned to the Alpha Quadrant.

    Is it possible that travelling back to the 1990s led Janeway to have a greater interest in what her family had been doing during the era?
     
  12. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    That would be a nice explanation. Unfortunately, IIRC, she is talking in 11:59 about how her ancestor had captured her imagination since she was a girl, and had been her inspiration to go into Starfleet in the first place.
     
  13. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    *Shrugs*

    I tried.
     
  14. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wouldn't say Paris/Torres came out of nowhere.

    First, opposites do attract. It's happened endlessly in real life.

    Second, I think of "FACES" as an icebreaker for them. Tom was basically the only person who saw her like this. It was a vulnerable side, and he was mature about the whole thing. I think it made B'Elanna start to look at him a bit differently.

    And there were a lot of little moments in between that helped cement their relationship. VOYAGER dropped the ball on a lot of things, but that relationship was not one of them. It was one of the few things on the show where we saw being an actual progression from beginning to end.

    I go agree with much of the rest of what you said, though.
     
  15. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing wrong with that. unfortunately, Voyager is full of inconsictencies. In the episodes, in the books and especially if you compare the episodes and the books.

    But that makes it even more interesting and challenging! :techman:

    I've tried to merge the events in the series and in the books by making a timeline of Voyager's first three seasons (if and when I get time I might take on the rest of the series too, at least for the timeline) and that has been rather easy. I've also listed the most notable contradictions so far on the pages "Episode reviews" and "Book reviews" and tried to explain the worst of them at the page "Voyager mysteries-and how to solve them", all on the Kes Website. :bolian:

    But sometimes you just have to ignore them and let them pass.


    You do have some really good points here. To be honest, they did actually come up with a rather good romance after all, something they weren't good at otherwise.