MemoryAlpha editor refuses to change Adira's Gender to "Non-Binary"

I think what we are trying to get across, is that there shouldn't need to be a debate about it with the Admins, and there is no reason to remove Genders, or change the current Adira page, which lists them as non-binary.

The fact the admin staff are planning to remove Gender from all pages, seems like a hyperbolic response to some admin staff not wanting to acknowledge Adira being non-binary, or anything other than Male or Female being a valid gender.

 

'I was only following orders!'

 

What leniency is that?

 

Throwing the toys out of the pram. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And other selected analogies.

 

There was a similar instance I found back-tracking during a discussion over in TrekLit on the provenance of referring to the Mirror Universe counterpart of the Federation as the "Terran Empire," where the MA article on the Empire called it the "Terran Empire" from when it was first created, several months to a year before "In a Mirror, Darkly," aired, which was the first on-screen use of the term (before that, it was just "the Empire"). In that case, we figured "Terran Empire" was actually first used in one of the Shatnerverse novels some years earlier, and it was probably used in ENT because the books' co-/ghost-writers, the Reeves-Stevenses, were part of the writing staff on Enterprise's fourth season, and it was probably used on MA because everything was harder then with DVDs being expensive and streaming and transcript sites being nonexistent so it wasn't easy to fact-check like it is today.

I'd guess the "Great Houses" thing was a similar case of both MA and the show's writers pulling from official but noncanon sources, given all the other Klingon lore pulled from novels in DSC's first season. It'd be interesting to know if there ever was a case of something on MA that was non-canon or fanon that was unknowingly referenced in a show or movie just because it was the MA article. I know that sort of thing happens all the time with behind-the-scenes Star Trek legends, but I'm not sure if it ever happened in-universe.

 

Yeah, I dunno where that 24 originally came from... well, it came from the editor of the original page, but I don't know where *that* person got if from. Again, the rules were much looser back in 2004, and if you look at the page when it was created... there are no references whatsoever. *That* policy has gotten much more strict as well. We're currently working on a citation change that would include the act in addition to the episode to further narrow down the reference... kinda like a page number in a book citation. Ideally it would be a timing rather than just the act number, but the timings differ in different formats.

You noticed it and got it removed back in 2017, I see.

 

Only for it to get re-added a few weeks later when Discovery aired heh. Still.

 

Don't be an ass. It's not *my* wiki, and I'm not following anyone's orders.

 

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kosinski
Kosinski was a male Human Starfleet propulsion expert

Based on this it should be possible to state that Adira Tal was a non-binary Human.

Or here https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet_uniform_(32nd_century) you show rank insignia which were a) not shown in any episode (Fleet Captain for example) and b) where taken from "The Ready Room" after show.

 

Few things, 1. Does nobody else find it gross how "secondary sex characteristics" are being brought up in regards to a minor(age) character? Just feels inappropriate to me. 2. What's the relevance? Once again did any other characters have their "biological sex" brought up regrading their identity? 3. How long should we expect in terms of MA updating its policy? and 4. I think this speaks to the lack of trans & nonbinary ppl on the mod team, our insights regrading this issue probably wouldve saved alot of drama involved in this.

Why aren't actors acceptable resource? And can't they be in this case since Adira being Nonbinary is big thing for trek, why start demanding all this extra info now?
Being a volunteer goes both ways, don't like when we criticize your policies? don't volunteer nobody forced you to make an account and respond to us. And I'm grateful that you've decided to respond to us, but these responses still speak problems mainly regards to MA policy and how it's enforced

 

How rude! I'd have expected better from a senior admin at Memory Alpha!

 

Oh of course it's possible. It's been possible all along. They just don't want to do it and are digging their heels in.

It's no more complex than that.

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

 

Not every article is written that way, it's very inconsistent.

That's something else that needs to be looked it.

 

So are you gonna take efforts to include them on the mod team?

 

If you don't understand that, then I can't help you understand. The actors are interpreting what the writers write; the writers create the canon. The actors don't. And it not extra info for Adira; read our resource policy if you really want to understand and not just argue with me.

 

So what you're saying is that you need a direct quote from a writer?

 

Actors have to have an interpretation of their character, but they do not always have a complete idea of their character. Here are a couple of examples. Julian Bashir's actor (and the writers) had no idea he had been genetically engineered until it became a storyline. And Jadzia Dax's actor has spoken years after playing the role, to say Jadzia was Pansexual.

The show is done, so there is no chance of getting canonical information to confirm this is how the characters were written. So Bashir's past can be mentioned, but Terry Farrell's belief Jadzia was always Pansexual, can't be treated as canon. (but it can be mentioned as background information)

 

? I'm not trying to argue, I just wanted hear info regrading policy from someone who enforces it.

Alright thanks for the explanation.

 

Nope, nobody forced me to volunteer at MA, and nobody forced me to create an account here and respond. You're welcome to come to MA and comment on the policies there on the talk pages and forums, but I don't feel I'm getting anywhere here... I'm just saying the same things over and over. Thus, I feel like I'm wasting my time here... so I'll just say bye, and it's been real.