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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x13 - "That Hope Is You, Part 2"

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Were the workings of turbolifts in the 'old' series really that much more believable? That you could enter a turbolift from any point in the ship and just say 'bridge' and it would take you to the bridge? We know DSC is a huge ship: is it that hard to imagine that there's an open space where the turbolifts take their correct position?

For me, the old turbolifts were more believable. They were basically elevators. The Discovery "open space" concept feels like TARDIS tech (bigger on the inside). The dimensions don't seem to match. It seems much bigger on the inside than the outside IMO. The only way it could possibly, maybe, work if if Discovery is a huge ship and the entire secondary hull is literally just one big wide open space. But why would you design a ship where the entire secondary hull is just wide open space for turbolift "pods" to zip around? Makes no sense to me.
 
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Weak. Weak finale to round off the weakest season so far.

I really thought a change in scenery - unencumbered by any canon / continuity roadblocks *might* have done the trick. But at this point, I don't think it matters what century they deposit Discovery in, we're still going to be stuck with the same damned creative team.

As for the finale ...
  • Some of the scenes with Saru and Su'Kal were nice - Doug Jones can rescue a lot of mediocre writing.
  • The Coruscant chase sequence through the turbo shafts. That's ummm ... quite the spacious interior. Must've upgraded Discovery with the Bigger On The Inside™ tech we saw in Enterprise's Future Tense. I know, I know ... Star Trek V.
  • Book and the Spore Drive. No. Are you fucking kidding me?
  • Genetic subspace connections. Awesome.
  • Grey appearing in corporeal form really ought to have elicited more 'WTF!?' from the Doctor and less smiles and hugs. But I guess we don't have time for that, because we have to push the plot along ASAP.
  • Ossyra - from moustache twirling villain, to potentially interesting character last episode aaaaand ... back to moustache twirling villain - see ya. You shouldn't have given up - cause Burnham never does! (even when she's trapped in a wall of replicator blocks).
  • There's still a hard road ahead for The Federation. Oh wait, there's not? Dilithium - check. Montage of old member worlds signing back up - check. Alright then - moving along.

Last but not least - Captain Michael Burnham. They really did it.

But it could work. I think the writing that got her there was shitty, lazy and poorly conceived. But, it might be a better fit for the show. We'll see.

Next season's wish list: a real ensemble cast. Whatever the faults were of the Berman era, ensemble casts weren't one of them. I want more balance with some real depth & complexity to these characters. Oh, and no damned mystery box!

/rant

.
.
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"So, Michael ... what did you learn this season?"

"Why, the same thing I learn every season - I'm always right."
 
Just finished it. I'm still processing my thoughts about it so my feeling my change, but my gut feeling while in the moment was that this season finale was a bit underwhelming, especially when I consider the entire season. When it started I was thinking this might be my favorite or second favorite DISCO season finale but as it went on, my estimation of it lessened, and it's third now.

It's hard for me to just separate the episode and judge it alone. I feel it was too interconnected to the whole season and some of the issues I had with the season amplified in the finale.

But I'll start with the positives:
-The finale did a pretty good job giving most of the cast screen time or something to do. The season has done right by Culber and has really made his character stand out, and I liked that Owosekun got some spotlight in the finale as well. Even though I think the series hasn't done enough character development, I like seeing the crew together, smiling, and happy. I just wish that we had gotten more scenes in the first two seasons with them bonding so it doesn't feel like a cheat to me.
-I'm glad Book and Owosekun didn't die.
-I love Burnham's braids. I hope they keep that hairstyle.
-I was happy about the uniform change. I wasn't sure if the crew was going to go back in time or not, but it appears they are sticking around in the 32nd century, and the uniform change is a nice acknowledgement of that. Getting rid of the blue uniforms felt like the series was finally letting go of it's past. (Don't get me wrong, I really like the blues, even they never felt pre-TOS to me).

Stuff I didn't care for as much:
-The finale was stuffed. It went from action to drama scenes and back again and it all felt a bit too unwieldy.
-I thought the Emerald Chain was wasted. I wasn't expecting Osyraa to die and I thought that was a waste of an intriguing villain who could've been the crew's Dukat, Tomalak, Duras, Seska, or Weyoun.
-I didn't really care about Su'kal to be honest. The finale grinded almost to a halt when it went back to him and Saru. I also didn't care for Su'kal being the cause of The Burn. It definitely felt left field, and was something the writers had to pat themselves on their backs for, because I doubt many fans would've figured that out-definitely this fan didn't. And while it wasn't a predictable enemy. it still felt underwhelming, especially after all the build up. And then the storyline was resolved too quickly.
-I would've liked more answers about Kovich.
-I would've liked to meet the Federation President. On one of the threads someone suggested VOY's Doctor and that stuck in my head. I think that would've been great to see Bob Picardo again, especially with all the Voyager love we got from Admiral Vance.
-Overall I felt the season was too uneven. The Georgiou episodes should've been much earlier in the season (and really just one episode), and looking back like the one where Nhan leaves the ship, also felt unnecessary. The whole galactic music thing went nowhere-well, for Season 3. Perhaps it will be part of Gray and Adira's story next season, but still there was little payoff there.
-I've grown used to Trek season finales ending on cliffhangers (even though I know not all Trek series have done that). It struck me that this season finale felt more like a series finale. I wonder if the writers weren't sure if they would get renewed and wrote a proper close to the series (which if that had been the case was better than ENT's and less derivative than VOY's).
-I am iffy about Saru not being captain anymore. I don't think he got enough time in the seat. However, if my theory that they were writing the season not certain about renewal then getting Burnham in the seat completes her arc. I wonder now if she will relinquish the captain's chair or be demoted for some reason next season to get back to the idea of a lead that is a non-captain. Or will the series shift more to an ensemble series which would be less dependent on Burnham's character growth? I definitely would like to see more of Burnham and Book, as well as Burnham adjusting to being captain as well as the future, so there's a lot more to explore with her character, though I also feel that a lot of her character arc has been completed over three seasons. We saw her lose it all, get redemption, reconcile with her brother, reunite with her mother (in both the 23rd and 32nd centuries), find love twice (with Tyler and Book), and finally ascend to the captain's chair that both Georgiou's thought she was destined for. I wouldn't mind the series taking time to explore the ensemble cast more. Already they seem to be going down that road with Stamets & Culber and their 'kids' Adira and Gray. I'm guessing Aureillo might be joining the cast so that's another intriguing character, along with Book, that can provide insight into this time.
-I wish a 32nd century Starfleet officer (like Lt. Willa) had joined the crew. Perhaps for chief security officer to take the place of Nhan.

With that finale, that definitely leaves DISCO free to explore its own corner of the Trek galaxy. I hope in season four there is more thought put into the antagonists and that they move away from a big arc or mystery because they've thus far not been too consistent about pulling those off successfully. I liked the Mirror Universe arc in Season 1 and the fight against Section 31, but the other arcs-like the Klingon War, the Red Angel, and The Burn felt underfed.

Their new mission opens the door for more episodic storytelling and richer exploration of this future world. And even if they just relied on Trek lore, there's tons of questions about the state of the galaxy to be asked that could fill up a season or several worth of storylines.
 
This is a nitpick, so if you don't like nitpicks you can pass this by.

We learn why Su'Kal caused the first burn. His mother died. Okay. Yet, the Khi'eth crashed on Theta Zeta in 3064 and the Burn happened in 3069. It is established in this episode and the last that the radiation was lethal and that another Kelpien, Saru, had only hours to live. So, how could Issa survive five years? And, those bodies of the dead crew, wouldn't they be moved to a place where they could be stored and not left to decompose?

It's funny to me that the Discovery went from being a rapid response vessel to a supply vessel.
 
This is a nitpick, so if you don't like nitpicks you can pass this by.

We learn why Su'Kal caused the first burn. His mother died. Okay. Yet, the Khi'eth crashed on Theta Zeta in 3064 and the Burn happened in 3069. It is established in this episode and the last that the radiation was lethal and that another Kelpien, Saru, had only hours to live. So, how could Issa survive five years? And, those bodies of the dead crew, wouldn't they be moved to a place where they could be stored and not left to decompose?

It's funny to me that the Discovery went from being a rapid response vessel to a supply vessel.
I assume the ship had better shielding at the time that allowed the mother to live longer.
 
With that finale, that definitely leaves DISCO free to explore its own corner of the Trek galaxy. I hope in season four there is more thought put into the antagonists and that they move away from a big arc or mystery because they've thus far not been too consistent about pulling those off successfully. I liked the Mirror Universe arc in Season 1 and the fight against Section 31, but the other arcs-like the Klingon War, the Red Angel, and The Burn felt underfed.

Their new mission opens the door for more episodic storytelling and richer exploration of this future world. And even if they just relied on Trek lore, there's tons of questions about the state of the galaxy to be asked that could fill up a season or several worth of storylines.

Indeed. The S2 finale got them out of the road of the approaching TOS period (which presumably, they didn't want to contend with). We can now see S3 was about setting the stage for a fully fledged starship series set in the 32nd Century - with no canon or continuity to speak of in it's path.
 
Brief random thoughts:
  • Surprised that they didn’t kill Book... or Detmer... or Owo... or any of our heroes really. I mean, I’m glad they didn’t actually kill someone just to kill someone, but there was little not manufactured tension.
  • I hate the new uniforms.
  • I was a little surprised by Captain Burnham at the end.
  • Having said that, I adore Saru and wonder what they’ll do with him next season.
  • “Let’s fly!” ... okay. I need to think about that one.
  • Did Kovich, Nilsson or Reno actually say anything in this episode? It’s nice to have the texture of these continuing characters but it seems odd to pay the guest star fee if you’re not going to give them some dialogue. (I’m gathering Sarah Mititch was otherwise booked which is why she didn’t appear in the majority of these past few episodes but it was a little jarring to see her at the end when we had random Lieutenant before all of this.)
  • I hate the new uniforms.
  • Tilly should have killed Zareh.
  • Culber’s promise to Gray promises an interesting plot line for season four.
  • I wonder how much conflict we’ll see with Stamets and Burnham next season. There was already a lot of Stamets side eye. Understandably so.
  • I really like Vance. His conversation with Burnham at the end was nice. I love how Disco actually has created relatable Admirals with both Cornwell and Vance.
  • The turbo lifts? Yeah, they’re ridiculous. Add it to the list a mile long of ridiculous things in Trek. Doesn’t phase me.
  • The message here is good and as driven home by the Roddenberry quote at the end. Communication is the key to resolving conflict. This episode could not have been better timed with the events yesterday out of Washington D.C. I hope the U.S. can come together after all that has happened in recent history. That starts with communication.
  • I hate the new uniforms.
So the end of Disco season 3 and 23 straight weeks of new Trek! This episode was probably a 7 for me, the season probably the same. I think I put the season as a whole in the middle behind season 2. (Yeah, the Red Angel is ridiculous as was Control but I love me some Captain Pike.) It was nice to see more of what we were promised with season 2 fleshing out the bridge crew. Other highlights were the Saru captaincy, Tilly’s coming into her own and the Stamets/Culber/Adria/Gray story arc being the emotional center here. With the future literally wide open now for Disco, I look forward to what season 4 brings!

Did I mention I hate the new uniforms? :p
 
It was...fine...much like the season as a whole. Not great, not awful. Acceptable.

Breaking up the episode into two parts:

I liked the quieter side of the episode with Saru and Su'Kal much, much better. The explanation for the Burn is still idiotic technobabble. But you know what - the idea of a childlike entity completely accidentally causing huge levels of destruction is very TOS. Doug Jones was fantastic in all of his scenes, and really elevated this section of the episode.

The stuff on Discovery was just a big dumb action movie. Everything was one plot contrivance after the next to save the day. Any sort of nuance to Osyraa's character went completely out the window. It was also a weirdly consequence free session, with no one on Team Good making the ultimate sacrifice. I suppose that was the one part of the finale that sort of subverted my expectations, because I had expected someone (Book, Ina, Vance, just somebody) to die - and no one did.

I don't mind seeing Michael in the captain's chair at all, because as I have said before, there's always been this weird dynamic to the show, because the writers want her (as the protagonist) to always be right, yet she isn't the one calling the shots, hence they have had to do things like having captains defer to her. At least they can write Season 4 in a more typically Trek fashion now.

I'm really not feeling Saru's probable exit from the show (at least as a main character). I am glad that he seemingly took a leave of absence of his own accord, rather than getting chewed out by Vance for being a fuck up and getting demoted. But why did they drop all those breadcrumbs about Vance doubting his choices and not follow up on them? Was it just to show us he's unfit for command?

Tilly didn't do much of use to redeem herself during the episode, as I expected, since she had to make way for the great Michael. I really hate how the show feels the need to sabotage the agency of secondary characters to make Michael seem more badass. Hell, you could argue Stamets' end-season descent into irrationality was pretty much the same thing.

Anyway, hopefully next season is better? Seems every season of Discovery is a soft reboot anyway.
 
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I thought the finale was excellent. Overall the season was patchy at best, but the last five episodes, when binge watched, really hit the spot for me. I called the ending a few weeks ago on the zoom call, and as a big fan of Burnham (who was radiant in this episode) I’m glad she’s in the chair.
 
I gave this episode a strong 3, almost decided to go for the big 4, but it just wasn’t enough (maybe next season!). I wish the show would have managed to become a mediocre tv show, something you can watch while you build an Ikea shelf. But the show and most of its characters keep being annoying, the story stays bland and none of the chances which came with the time jump have been used by the writers.

Discovery stays a bad tv show and a even worse Star Trek show. Currently i don’t see any vision which could make this show worth watching (except for it’s Star Trek brand). At least Burnham is a captain now, so Vance is the only superior left whose orders she could disobey (and most likely will in season 4).

Kutzman, ffs please just make room for someone else. Or at least get Berman back out of retirement to guide you.
 
Was ok. Liked parts, hated other parts. Though the legend that is Admiral Vance got more screen time which is always welcome.
 
I gave this episode a strong 3, almost decided to go for the big 4, but it just wasn’t enough (maybe next season!). I wish the show would have managed to become a mediocre tv show, something you can watch while you build an Ikea shelf. But the show and most of its characters keep being annoying, the story stays bland and none of the chances which came with the time jump have been used by the writers.

Discovery stays a bad tv show and a even worse Star Trek show. Currently i don’t see any vision which could make this show worth watching (except for it’s Star Trek brand). At least Burnham is a captain now, so Vance is the only superior left whose orders she could disobey (and most likely will in season 4).

Kutzman, ffs please just make room for someone else. Or at least get Berman back out of retirement to guide you.

I doubt 'Kutzman' reads your posts. If he does, I very much hope he ignores it because I think he has put Star Trek into its strongest position in a generation. Maybe ever. Considering how staggeringly successful the franchise is at the moment, and how well rated this episode was in the poll above, have you ever considered that maybe it isn't 'bad' but just not for you and not to your taste? I highly doubt it ever will be to be honest, because it doesn't seem to be made for those longing for the days of Berman Trek. It seems to be made for the 70% on here who voted it 8 or above (the vast majority of that 9 or above, and the majority of those a 10) and not for you. Anyway, there's always 'realTrek™' like the Orville just around the corner. That should keep some people happy.
 
I really liked the “communication” and “desire to be seen” themes and how they tied different storylines together in the end — enough that it enhanced my appreciation of certain choices earlier in the season. That was an effective use of serialization, I thought.

That said, there was a lot of nonsense in this episode, such as Gray being recognized by the holo program. How does that work? And why just Gray and not the other previous hosts? Could have been an interesting idea if introduced earlier in the season but was, like a lot of stuff in Discovery, rushed and half-baked in execution. (I have to say, Gray looked great as an anime Vulcan, and I kinda wished they kept that avatar around, goofy as the idea was.)

Doug Jones was great, as usual, but they really belabored that THIS is the CAUSE of the BURN. We get it already. We got it two episodes ago, even.

The Osyraa business disappointed. Stock action runaround, complete with unsatisfying (and dumb) final confrontation one-on-one with Burnham. Osyraa’s death barely registered, and the whole Emerald Chain storyline was a whiff, ultimately.

Weird that two of the three Discovery finales have hinged on strategic placement of a bomb.

Was not a fan of Burnham replacing Saru as captain, but at least they left the door somewhat open. If that sticks, the show will miss out on a lot of storytelling possibilities with its first alien captain. But how they handled that transition could have been much worse. Don’t understand why they went to such lengths to make him seem incompetent, though.

Overall, this is probably my favorite of the finales, and the season as a whole comes in second of the three.
 
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