The episode title was not officially released until a couple days ago. The name we had before was from the WGA not CBS, so it could have changed months ago.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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The episode title was not officially released until a couple days ago. The name we had before was from the WGA not CBS, so it could have changed months ago.
Yeah, but I think "The Citadel" probably refers to Su'Kal's fortress.
Except the episode clearly states that Osayra was able to track Discovery by analyzing their jump signatures (which she got the last time at Kweijan).
Honestly, I'm a bit sickened by the premise that the writers had to make Osayra's ship overpowered compared to Discovery.
'Bigger guns' my rear end, who cares?
A torpedo is a torpedo... it will blow you up just the same if the yields are the same.
My main beef is how did Osayra manage to beam aboard Disco so easily?
Maybe Osayra meant that her torpedoes had higher yields but I agree her line about having "bigger torpedoes" was poor writing.
Also, I did not like Tilly saying Discovery had "photons torpedoes". That also felt like poor writing. Starfleet already had quantum torpedoes in use in DS9 era. Are you telling me Starfleet is still using photon torpedoes hundred of years later? Or did Starfleet not give Discovery any new torpedoes? Is Discovery still using her old photon torpedoes from her era?
Yeah. I suspect that someone in Starfleet is working for the Emerald Chain. Or maybe the Emerald Chain has an agent in Starfleet? I would not be surprised either if Vance turns out to be secretly collaborating with the Emerald Chain.
Your comparison brought another to mind for me, the Emerald Chain to that of Stargate's Lucian Alliance. I can't say they ever really got their due as major threats, from the episodes I saw, but more like thorns in the side even in the series that highlighted them.
That could have been better. Sigh.
I didn't think this was a great episode, but looking around here and elsewhere, I think my reaction is a bit more measured than most.
There were aspects of the episode I enjoyed. There were lots of decent emotional moments - particularly in the first half of the episode. I was genuinely surprised by it turning into a "holodeck episode" as well - overall in a pleasant way. It was nice to see Doug Jones outside of his regular makeup, and seeing how he still was clearly in character as Saru. If you looked at the episode in isolation, I'd say it was fine, if a little heavy on the technobabble in a TNG sorta way.
People are hating on the origin of the Burn, but I am a bit more sanguine on it. As I said before, I always felt like there was no way to end this except with a damp squib, which is exactly what happened. I had hoped for something which at least built into some themes, but at the very least it didn't turn out to be some deliberate action from some antagonistic power, which would have been much more cliche. However, that means Osyraa is actually the antagonist of the season, which is incredibly underwhelming. I've been calling her discount Seska, but that might be an insult to Martha Hackett. She's strictly bush-league as villains go however.
I do not like what they are doing with Saru. They have been making it clear for several episodes he is unfit for command due to his emotional connection to his people. I believe now his choice of Tilly as his XO is also meant to showcase his incompetence. Hopefully he is being set up to fail in order to show character growth, not to make way for Michael.
It is pretty clear the way the dialogue was framed when Osyraa came in that there is a mole who has given away Discovery's position. I suppose it could be at Starfleet HQ, but unless it was Vance it wouldn't be good dramatically - since the turncoat wouldn't be someone we know. The way the episode was structured it made us believe the betrayer was Book, When Tilly was talking about how Osyraa could have possibly known, it cut to Book's face. Also, he was conveniently off the ship when the attack happened. And he installed Emerald Chain devices on the ship two episodes ago. It seems like a very long con might have been played here...or that Osyraa flipped Book for a price while he was imprisoned. It doesn't make much sense because the trailer for next week's episode shows him fighting the Emerald Chain, but they may be holding off the reveal until the end of that episode. We will see.
Another out-there prediction: Since Adira went down to the holo-simulation, Saru and Culber will be able to see Grey. Further, they'll find some technobabble way to have Grey survive as an independent holo-program so he can interact with the rest of the crew next season. I mean he said right at the start of the episode he was having a hard time not interacting with anyone but them. We will see I suppose.
There were aspects of the episode I enjoyed. There were lots of decent emotional moments - particularly in the first half of the episode. I was genuinely surprised by it turning into a "holodeck episode" as well - overall in a pleasant way. It was nice to see Doug Jones outside of his regular makeup, and seeing how he still was clearly in character as Saru. If you looked at the episode in isolation, I'd say it was fine, if a little heavy on the technobabble in a TNG sorta way.
People are hating on the origin of the Burn, but I am a bit more sanguine on it. As I said before, I always felt like there was no way to end this except with a damp squib, which is exactly what happened. I had hoped for something which at least built into some themes, but at the very least it didn't turn out to be some deliberate action from some antagonistic power, which would have been much more cliche. However, that means Osyraa is actually the antagonist of the season, which is incredibly underwhelming. I've been calling her discount Seska, but that might be an insult to Martha Hackett. She's strictly bush-league as villains go however.
I do not like what they are doing with Saru. They have been making it clear for several episodes he is unfit for command due to his emotional connection to his people. I believe now his choice of Tilly as his XO is also meant to showcase his incompetence. Hopefully he is being set up to fail in order to show character growth, not to make way for Michael.
It is pretty clear the way the dialogue was framed when Osyraa came in that there is a mole who has given away Discovery's position. I suppose it could be at Starfleet HQ, but unless it was Vance it wouldn't be good dramatically - since the turncoat wouldn't be someone we know. The way the episode was structured it made us believe the betrayer was Book, When Tilly was talking about how Osyraa could have possibly known, it cut to Book's face. Also, he was conveniently off the ship when the attack happened. And he installed Emerald Chain devices on the ship two episodes ago. It seems like a very long con might have been played here...or that Osyraa flipped Book for a price while he was imprisoned. It doesn't make much sense because the trailer for next week's episode shows him fighting the Emerald Chain, but they may be holding off the reveal until the end of that episode. We will see.
Another out-there prediction: Since Adira went down to the holo-simulation, Saru and Culber will be able to see Grey. Further, they'll find some technobabble way to have Grey survive as an independent holo-program so he can interact with the rest of the crew next season. I mean he said right at the start of the episode he was having a hard time not interacting with anyone but them. We will see I suppose.
Which would double down on the "future Federation is a dystopia" theme since the highest-ranking officer in the Starfleet of the 32nd century would be a criminal co-conspirator working against his own side, so I'm not entirely against this were it completely out of left field. Thing is some fans have already been talking about how shady the Admiral appears to be and that there's something more to him than we already know, and if there's one thing DSC has been pretty bad at over the past few seasons it's being subtle about a character's hidden agenda. They telegraph things with all the tact of throwing a bag of nails at a display of balloons.
I mean...they took a character with great potential like Lorca and all but told us he's Mirror Universe.
There is probably a traitor. Hoping it's the darn cat.
Osyrra took Saru's attack personally
Love it.
The origin of the Burn feels very TOS. Not expected but super interesting.
Lots of interesting ideas to see next time.
Osyrra took Saru's attack personally
Love it.
The origin of the Burn feels very TOS. Not expected but super interesting.
Lots of interesting ideas to see next time.
You don't need a leak for that part, either the on-screen explanation (which I don't think made sense or was the real one), or a tracking mechanism inside the subspace amplifier that uses Emerald Chain-technology works. However, knowing the name of the spore drive, knowing it needed a human pilot, who the pilot was and where they were to bring a mind control right to them... If they somehow got this from a scan of the ship, it's still an immense security breach and an oversight in security measures, even if no humans were involved in the disclosure, but it is also incredible enough that it's very hard to imagine how it happened without someone on the inside to feed them information.
There aren't many options:
- A Discovery crewman from the 23rd century. Individually they would be the least suspect, as they had neither the time to leave the ship and interact with anyone, nor the motivation to connect with someone from an unknown antagonist force, randomly; especially after they were willing to abandon their own time for the ship's mission. It's still the prime possibility because of the sheer number of Discovery crewmembers (and still someone could pull a Seska), but anyone individually can be moved to the bottom of the list automatically.
- An unnamed member of the renovation crew. Also sheer number, but with much bigger chance. It's the most likely, but it would be odd choice for a story to have a spy and not somehow introduce them.
- Booker. Don't like this option. Doesn't fit with anything about his character we've seen so far. Doing 180° in his case would not be good story.
- Admiral Vance. He's the one most intimately familiar. Something feels good about Discovery proving themselves by uncovering a conspiracy on that level, it also compounds a bit of distrust I still feel towards the Federation, but it's both unrealistic for Discovery to become saviours again and I also happen to like Vance.
- Lt. Willa. Could be. I suspected her before there was anything to suspect!
- Adira. Please NO. In hindsight some of the pieces would fit, they forced themselves on the ship, but still NO.
- The Andorian guy.
- The character played by Cronenberg. Albeit, fan theory: If that's revealed to be the answer, there would be a twist that the leak was done in the interest of the Federation, not the Emerald Chain. Somehow. It wouldn't make sense, but that's what it would be.
What better way to celebrate Voyager's anniversary than by showing Discovery so easily captured and the crew relieved of their badges...under the nose of the red-haired woman in the Captain's chair!
David Ajala has already confirmed this will be his sole season on Discovery, while Blu del Barrio will appear next season.
That doesn't sound reassuring. And his entry on the ship and further involvement should have been suspicious to the rest of Discovery, as they knew very little about him. But I still hope it's not him.
I would not trust him aboard a Federation starship, but in the way I wouldn't trust Worf's brother to follow regulations. Not in the way I would ever imagine he would defect to Ossyra, of all people.
The stranger from another planet or even time period who gets free reign aboard a Federation starship simply because the commanding officer feels okay with letting them do so is almost as old as Trek itself. Lazarus in TOS is an obviously disturbed humanoid from an unknown race manipulating space and time itself to destroy who he claims is an "evil, murdering monster" who obliterated his homeworld. Yet Kirk and McCoy just let him wander all over the Enterprise with no supervision until disaster happens. Lokai from Cheron gets much the same treatment as he spends at least part of his time aboard the ship trying to sway crewmembers to his cause.
Dont think so. It would be a boring twist.
Like you said it doesn't fit.
Don't believe its Vance because Osyraa wasn't aware of the existence of that Dilithium-Planet (JACKPOT!) and she questioned Sarus absence!
I think she or the other guy behind Vance in the Trailer is the Traitor or maybe both!
Her "bad mood" attitude could be an indicator.
Vance's adjutants where in the right position to lure the fleet to Kaminar so Starfleet-HQ is virtually defenceless.
Never !
Small chance but also lame !
Interesting idea !
Yeah, that's the "when they're coughing that means they're dying" thing.
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