I rewatch DS9 for the sheer joy of it.
Do people still watch Star Trek to enjoy it?
- Thread starter Mage
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Let's not forget that even when people hate watch they are still enjoying it. People like feeling that hate because they want to laugh at how bad it is or feel vindicated about their low opinions of the show. Same reason liberals are famous for watching Fox News back in the day or the way people today keep falling for clickbait or going on twitter to rage. Who says it's not fun to be angry? It's just not the best kind of fun IMO but it's still something people enjoy on some level.
Jason
Jason
I legitimately watched Picard wanting to enjoy it, & slowly but surely had to admit that wasn't going to happen. I wouldn't waste the time/effort of watching anything, especially if I have to sign up for a separate service just for it, if I knew or strongly suspected I wouldn't find it enjoyable. Short of that, I give it every opportunity. Any criticism thereafter ought to be measured with that in mind. I went out of my way to approve of it, & gave it every benefit of the doubt, & if it still disappoints, then what else is there to say?
I'll speak for myself only. Yes, I watch to enjoy a show first and foremost.
Yes, I nitpick because (for me) nitpicks are reminders of the episode not being pure 100% perfect.
Those who watch to dislike are more likely going to make third rate videos on youtube, and if they saw a lot of the older shows they'd see most of the same problems they gripe about for the new stuff. Maybe they don't like the style and what stands out are nitpicks they overlook or didn't pick up on. There's more to a tv show than pointing out continuity flaws, and especially in the 1960s when conscious effort wasn't embraced the way it has in later decades...
And when Deep Space 9 aired, or "Deep Throat 9" as some still call it. Or TNG. Or Lower Decks. etc. On a superficial level it's all the same. They're all entertainment shows and individual viewers' perceptions and experiences may vary. Sitcoms are the hardest genre to sell to wide audiences, which is why most of them follow similar tropes...
I've suspected they enjoy it for a long time. Over 20 years. It's why I think getting into any argument with them is a fixed argument. They don't want to acknowledge anything that will stop them being able to stay angry and keep putting on an angry front. The best you can do is catch them in the act. That's also why I call it Mock Outrage.
The people who are truly angry and actually believe their vitriol to level that it looks like they believe tend to flame out quickly. Figuratively and literally.
With anyone else, I like to think it's an act or a front because, otherwise, how could they possibly function in society if they acted in Real Life like they do Online?
But I think these are the worst type of fans. Their presence is toxic. Not exactly headline news that I think this.
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I do agree that it is a front. It's easy to be angry online. There are no consequences of note, you can log off, leave, and never face another person face to face. Even the presence of just avatars immediately removes the human element and creates the tendency to be far more severe than even at conventions. Then, it becomes almost a matter of honor to stand up for these positions no matter what.
Facts become largely irrelevant at that point.
Of course lots of this also comes from stuff people rewatch a lot. When you watch the same episodes over and over you begin to notice nits and mistakes that you don't notice the first time through. People also put lots of thought in the show from the world building to the behind the scenes drama. People complaining is actually a good sign in that it shows people have deep interest in your product and it's not something they watch and forget 5 minutes later.
It's why nobody spend lots of time tearing apart Chicago Fire or something. People who like it just sort of like it as just a hour of diversion at best. Who who dislike it just stop watching. Some shows though demand strong fan passion and others like Trek bring it on because your literally creating another world that is not ours. That stuff sparks the imagination and you start to think about the politics and rules and details of that world. Thus when that stuff doesn't all ways line up with what is already established it kind of breaks the illusion that what we are watching is just a tv show.
Jason
It's why nobody spend lots of time tearing apart Chicago Fire or something. People who like it just sort of like it as just a hour of diversion at best. Who who dislike it just stop watching. Some shows though demand strong fan passion and others like Trek bring it on because your literally creating another world that is not ours. That stuff sparks the imagination and you start to think about the politics and rules and details of that world. Thus when that stuff doesn't all ways line up with what is already established it kind of breaks the illusion that what we are watching is just a tv show.
Jason
Enjoyment would certainly be the intent.
Of course, the "eye screams" in Picard tend to defeat that (is anybody here so maso that they actually *like* gratuitous gross-outs?
Of course, the "eye screams" in Picard tend to defeat that (is anybody here so maso that they actually *like* gratuitous gross-outs?
I know a guy in real life who went into a long tirade about how the new Star Trek sucks and is bad. I'm not sure if he was talking about the movies or Discovery or what. It was that undetailed of a criticism.
My response: "Yeah, I don't know, man, I don't really watch that stuff."
My response: "Yeah, I don't know, man, I don't really watch that stuff."
Yup. That's why I don't watch TWOK. Those brain bugs are not worth it.
It was the smartest thing to do in that situation.
I remember in 2013, someone I only sort-of knew from college asked me, "So how much do you hate the new Star Trek movie?" Referring to Star Trek Into Darkness. Now, I happened to not like that movie, but I did like the 2009 Film. So I was in this weird gray area. Whereas this guy, I took it, really didn't like either of them. At all. So I just gave a vague, cryptic, non-verbal "ehhh..." type of non-answer, then he went into it. I let him do all the talking. Then I changed the subject at the first opportunity.
Whenever I post in the TOS Forum, sometimes, I know DSC would get ripped to shreds if it were ever mentioned. So I flat-out just don't talk about it there. I dance around it if I have to. To do otherwise would be suicide. They know I'm a fan of it, but they also know I'm a TOS Fan, and I have the street cred, so we leave it alone. It's probably something anyone who's a huge TOS Fan who also becomes a huge fan (as opposed to an ordinary fan) of a Non-TOS Star Trek series has to deal with. It's like having dual-citizenship in two different countries.
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Even the best of series / episodes will not satisfy everyone. IDIC and all that. Yes, I still watch (and read) Trek to enjoy myself. Had you asked me this question during Disco season 1, which I generally disliked, I would still have answered the same. Through ups and downs, it's all still Star Trek, and I love Star Trek. It's never 100% bad. There will be things I don't care fore. There will be things I actively dislike. (Hate is an emotion that only exists to waste energy.) But there will also always be things I like, even love, and there have been enough of those to keep going.
Having said that, I do feel that the newer series have changed with the times. I have not seen Picard or Lower Decks yet outside of a few YT clips, but once I can get proper access to them I certainly will. My sometime lack of enthousiasm to the new series has more to do with the fact that they will likely end up being the thing that kills the novel lines that I have loved reading for the past 20 years. So, if something must replace something else that I loved, I will try and enjoy it for its own merits. Sometimes that is hard. We have a tendency to exchange likes and dislikes when interacting as humans, on the internet or not. "Your favorite drink is coffee? Oh I hate coffee." There will be some that get a kick out of being very negative of something. For that, I can only offer a quote from my favorite movie of all time:
"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new." (Anton Ego, from Ratatouille)
So yes, I may critique something I disliked. But I will always acknowledge that somewhere out there, is a group of talented actors, writers, producers, wardrobe people, set builders, etc. who understand these things much better than I. Mistakes will always be made. To err is human. And not everything is everyone's cup of tea. But if we relish in negativity for its own sake, we only end up demeaning ourselves. If it's not your cup of tea, try the coffee. I hear it's wonderful.
Having said that, I do feel that the newer series have changed with the times. I have not seen Picard or Lower Decks yet outside of a few YT clips, but once I can get proper access to them I certainly will. My sometime lack of enthousiasm to the new series has more to do with the fact that they will likely end up being the thing that kills the novel lines that I have loved reading for the past 20 years. So, if something must replace something else that I loved, I will try and enjoy it for its own merits. Sometimes that is hard. We have a tendency to exchange likes and dislikes when interacting as humans, on the internet or not. "Your favorite drink is coffee? Oh I hate coffee." There will be some that get a kick out of being very negative of something. For that, I can only offer a quote from my favorite movie of all time:
"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new." (Anton Ego, from Ratatouille)
So yes, I may critique something I disliked. But I will always acknowledge that somewhere out there, is a group of talented actors, writers, producers, wardrobe people, set builders, etc. who understand these things much better than I. Mistakes will always be made. To err is human. And not everything is everyone's cup of tea. But if we relish in negativity for its own sake, we only end up demeaning ourselves. If it's not your cup of tea, try the coffee. I hear it's wonderful.
Well said.
Why would I watch it for any other reason, if not to enjoy it?
That I love to nitpick on some shows/episodes doesn't mean I'm not enjoying watching them. That is to say, there are a few rare episodes in most series that I really don't enjoy, but still (re-)watch sometimes, because they happen to be part of the series ...
That I love to nitpick on some shows/episodes doesn't mean I'm not enjoying watching them. That is to say, there are a few rare episodes in most series that I really don't enjoy, but still (re-)watch sometimes, because they happen to be part of the series ...
Ceti eels I can stomach. Blastoneuron portolanii I can stomach. But an "eye scream"? Uh, no. Hell, knowing what Gary Lockwood had to wear in his eyes for WNM is rather hard for me to take.
Then again, consider that while on the one hand, I actually prefer to be conscious and lucid, and have an unobstructed view of the monitor, while undergoing a colonoscopy (and regard the sets of pictures I was given from my colonoscopies as "vacation pictures"), on the other hand, I cannot even imagine wearing contact lenses, the mere idea of cataract surgery freaks me out, to the point where I would require a full-blown general anesthetic, and would seriously consider retirement, an intensive course in braille, and a white cane with a red tip, as an acceptable alternative to any sort of eye surgery.
For me, that would be The Man Trap. Or the episode of Emergency wherein a starved-for-attention kid kills himself for real. Or a certain episode of Quincy involving a child with an abusive parent, in which Dr. Quincy discovers -- just in the nick of time -- that he'd had the kid taken away from the wrong parent.
Actually, those last two, I don't re-watch at all.
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There appears to be a bit of brand loyalty to Star Trek that people will watch regardless.
I mean, I can appreciate the fear around the eyes. I've had glasses since I was 8, and a quick way to get me angry was to knock my glasses off. I do now have contacts and had to get over my own fear because my newborn kept ripping my glasses off my face. So, contacts was necessary.
Same thing with the Ceti Eels. I had ear surgery at a young age so the discomfort is quite high with that scene.
So I highly doubt many people like these particular scenes. But, if they are a part of the story then that is what it is.
I agree...but for me it’s all relative.
Inside the Star Trek franchise it looks like this for me:
TOS
everything else
And in the broader scope of things...
Star Trek franchise
A few things I like quite a bit
Just about everything else
I watch the best episodes of TNG, also known as my favourites, usually annually. Although I don't know it very well, I have watched through TOS and plan to watch it again someday.
Answer to the original question would be "yes, I watch episodes of Star Trek because I enjoy them". However, I have a suspicion that this thread is about the new episodes that are coming out because the new series get a lot of bad talk.
Answer to the original question would be "yes, I watch episodes of Star Trek because I enjoy them". However, I have a suspicion that this thread is about the new episodes that are coming out because the new series get a lot of bad talk.
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