All the Negative people.

[Lord Garth]

I think most people just like to bring it up mostly because it's just kind of fun to sort friendly tease people with.

I believe you when you say you're being friendly, but I don't believe that in the case of some other posters or YouTubers.

@XCV330, I liked The Orville enough that I watched the entire first season; but not so much that I felt like coming back for the second season, a year later. So take that for what it's worth.

Fandom vs. Another Fandom might've played a factor too (on some level), but I'd also stopped watching Berman Trek after DS9 ended and Seth MacFarlane's shows aren't really my style. So when you put the two together: I wasn't likely to watch The Orville for very long no matter what was happening online.

 

[Jayson1]

Same say The second season is the best season of The Orville but I liked both seasons pretty equal.


Jason

 

[Sci]

I like The Orville for the most part. The characters are shallower than in DS9 or modern Trek, but it's usually a fun show with a nice tone, and I don't mind the humor. I do think it's a little tiresome to always use Moclans as the go-to alien substitute for LGBT people instead of actually having LGBT people, but really my only real complaint is that I think MacFarlane has some problematic ideas about what kinds of behavior it's acceptable for men to exhibit towards their exes. The S2 premiere has Ed stalking his ex-wife and her current boyfriend defending him for it and judging her anger as being unreasonable; the narrative seems to be designed to portray Kelly as in the wrong for being angry at Ed. Then later in the season, Kelly's boyfriend sends talking alien plants to harass her when she ends that relationship, and it's played as funny instead of incredibly inappropriate and vaguely threatening.

I'm really excited for Star Trek: Lower Decks. This is the first time Star Trek on TV will have left the genre of "hour-long sci-fi drama" and have left behind the style of "pseudo-fantastical Realist/Naturalist." I generally think Star Trek needs to evolve to embrace more than just one genre and one style of presentation if it's going to survive, so I'm psyched.

There are, indeed, a lot of Trekkies with sticks up their asses about it; I think it's because this is such a drastic change, and these kinds of fans are the ones who have made their consumption of Star Trek part of their personal identity they can use to to feel superior to others, instead of it being a set of works of art they enjoy for fun, to share with others as a way of bonding with people. Anything that disrupts their perception of what Star Trek is "supposed" to be therefore threatens their self-identity, producing irrationally angry reactions to change.

 

[ananta]

I’m not an Orville fan personally, I’ve never been a fan of Seth Mcfarlane’s brand of humour. They said, unlike the more rabid Discovery haters, I don’t make a song and dance about it, I just don’t watch it and I happily accept that many people do like it. I hate when it’s pitted against the new Trek shows, however, and when people say IT’S Star Trek and CBS Trek isn’t. Well, no, it’s not! It’s its own beast.

 

[Skipper]

What would Roddenberry really say if he were still alive?

"HELP HELP LET ME GET OUT OF THE COFFIN!!!"

...I'll see my way out.

 

[Steve Roby]

I get what you're saying, but the shows themselves have often alluded to the alien worlds they encounter having a very homogeneous mindset, culture, and personality trait that permeate the entire population.

Not that I have a problem with that. It's just a story, and fictional stories (especially science fiction) has often simplified these sorts of things in order to tell the story they want.

I remember people really loved the Babylon 5 episode "Parliament of Dreams," in which the station commander is supposed to think of a way to represent Earth religion and ends up with a whole bunch of people representing a whole bunch of beliefs, as opposed to the alien cultures who had one religion each. Fans were like, wow, JMS has said something really meaningful about humanity. I thought, JMS has just shot himself in the foot and demonstrated how thin and empty his worldbuilding is by comparing his one-dimensional alien cultures to reality.

If humans are allowed to have beer (in many colours and varieties) and whisk(e)y (which has its own varities, but not so many colours), the Romulans are allowed to have both, too.

For myself, I really hope the COVID virus will end this era of Star Trek.

For myself, I really hope this era of Star Trek ends this era of Star Trek fandom. Any episode of Discovery beats a million fanboy whines.

Can't we just all get along. We got a great Star Trek show in The Orville so how could we Trek fans be so upset with the state of the franchise!

I've watched The Orville. As far as 1990s random Trek reruns with penis jokes and funny rapes go, I guess it isn't that bad, and the music is often great. But it's neither the future nor present of anything. It's nostalgia mixed in with a puerile sense of humour. But hey, it's moving to a streaming service, so all the people who complain about new Trek being on a streaming service and going on about The Orville being better because it's on broadcast TV will have to STFU about that, at least.

 

[KennyB]

I'm really excited for Star Trek: Lower Decks. This is the first time Star Trek on TV will have left the genre of "hour-long sci-fi drama" and have left behind the style of "pseudo-fantastical Realist/Naturalist." I generally think Star Trek needs to evolve to embrace more than just one genre and one style of presentation if it's going to survive, so I'm psyched.

TAS was 25 min a pop..........but it was still "drama" I guess.

 

[KennyB]

1) Hoping that COVID ends this era of Trek just seems to be all kinds of inappropriate @Lakenheath 72

2) Oddly this is not The Orville forum/thread........so let's get back on topic or just let this die a slow death. Here's the season three Orville discussion https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-orville-season-three.299685/page-26#post-13471957

3) @Steve Roby if you are going to ignore a member then DO IT. It seems trollish to quote someone you are supposed to be ignoring and a taunt to them. Please edit or unignore them.

Carry on.

 

[Lord Garth]

There are, indeed, a lot of Trekkies with sticks up their asses about it; I think it's because this is such a drastic change, and these kinds of fans are the ones who have made their consumption of Star Trek part of their personal identity they can use to to feel superior to others, instead of it being a set of works of art they enjoy for fun, to share with others as a way of bonding with people. Anything that disrupts their perception of what Star Trek is "supposed" to be therefore threatens their self-identity, producing irrationally angry reactions to change.

For a long time I've taken "The Federation or Starfleet wouldn't do that!" or "This character shouldn't do that!" to be another way of saying "I wouldn't do that!" To which I think, "Great! I wouldn't do that either! But it's not about what you or I would do, it's about what they'd do in X situation."

But I do like that Lower Decks and presumably Strange New Worlds are going mess up people being able to say "Kurtzman Trek is too dark!" All these shows won't be able to be painted with one brushstroke if someone is actually fair, because it does seem like they're trying to make them different from each other.

If Picard wasn't picking up where the movies left off in the Prime Timeline (Data dead, Romulus destroyed) and seeing what was available from "All Good Things" that could be salvaged (Picard at the vineyard and having a brain defect), it probably would've been different too. PIC didn't create those things, it's just the state it found things in due to previous Trek. So if the TNG Movies ended with everything hunky-dory and if Spock Prime said "The state of affairs in the Galaxy were prosperous when I left 2387", then Picard would've picked up with that too.

 

[Francis Tonay]

Star Trek
Discovery
Picard
Strange New Worlds
Lower Decks
Section 31
Starfleet Academy

The Grand Franchise Continues.

 

[Steve Roby]

3) @Steve Roby if you are going to ignore a member then DO IT. It seems trollish to quote someone you are supposed to be ignoring and a taunt to them. Please edit or unignore them.

Post edited.

 

[KennyB]

Post edited.

Thanks Steve!

 

[Bollie74]

Oh dear every time a new Trek show comes out all the people who want to complain pop out the woodwork.

Like this guy

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I'm sure he speaks for all fans. /s

I had no idea what this show was about till I poked around and I kind of like it from what I have discovered. I'll wait till its available on some streaming service locally.

Wow, he is painfully Douchy.

 

[Qonundrum]

I like The Orville for the most part. The characters are shallower than in DS9 or modern Trek, but it's usually a fun show with a nice tone, and I don't mind the humor.

^^this

I was going into it expecting more fart jokes but the humor, especially in season 1, was thought out really well.

I do think it's a little tiresome to always use Moclans as the go-to alien substitute for LGBT people instead of actually having LGBT people,

And it's telling people it's okay to be straight (from that season 2 episode "Deflectors" in particular). Or rather, the metaphor being used has many possible connotations and not just the expected "role reversal to get the heteros to understand"... Add in the filler episodes (the dumb smartphone one) and other running arcs suffered as a result.

but really my only real complaint is that I think MacFarlane has some problematic ideas about what kinds of behavior it's acceptable for men to exhibit towards their exes.

He seems to be playing it for laughs. Kept in a bubble, the show is hardly more ribald than any comedy sketch shows made in the 1980s/90s (MadTV, In Living Color, et al). If this were real life, you bet it's creepy. But if anyone wants another example, those youtube videos where the laugh track is removed from "The Big Bang Theory" also suffice in terms of a fictional context versus real life beyond the airwaves.

The S2 premiere has Ed stalking his ex-wife and her current boyfriend defending him for it and judging her anger as being unreasonable; the narrative seems to be designed to portray Kelly as in the wrong for being angry at Ed. Then later in the season, Kelly's boyfriend sends talking alien plants to harass her when she ends that relationship, and it's played as funny instead of incredibly inappropriate and vaguely threatening.

Ditto, and after the blue pheromone guy appeared in "Cupid's Dagger", they should have made up because her cheating was influenced by... a drug someone else slipped her. But remove the laugh track from any sitcom, especially "All in the Family", and it all becomes the same thing. People subconsciously know a show is just that - not reality.

I'm really excited for Star Trek: Lower Decks. This is the first time Star Trek on TV will have left the genre of "hour-long sci-fi drama" and have left behind the style of "pseudo-fantastical Realist/Naturalist." I generally think Star Trek needs to evolve to embrace more than just one genre and one style of presentation if it's going to survive, so I'm psyched.

Ditto. It feels more like "Futurama with a twist". Liking Futurama probably helps.

And Trek does need to evolve. Devolution is the real risk. And in 1995, people were pointing at DS9 and saying how it needed a ship (and then got one...) Heck, PIC is not my style but I will give it big props for not being focused in a ship, or in a station, while finding a different way to tell stories and its makers are not incorrect in saying they want to find audiences more and other than those accustomed to typical Trek style (people on a ship). The franchise is also big enough at this point to encompass more formats and where one won't bring down the umbrella.

There are, indeed, a lot of Trekkies with sticks up their asses about it; I think it's because this is such a drastic change, and these kinds of fans are the ones who have made their consumption of Star Trek part of their personal identity they can use to to feel superior to others, instead of it being a set of works of art they enjoy for fun, to share with others as a way of bonding with people. Anything that disrupts their perception of what Star Trek is "supposed" to be therefore threatens their self-identity, producing irrationally angry reactions to change.

Liking something or being something isn't the same as the level of "personal identity" you're describing. None of us is Star Trek and it's fun to watch and in the venue that piques our interest at the time. (We all know someone who likes all iterations, or one but not the other - regardless of combination. And we've seen most or all of the tropes used before as well. Heck, in another time and place TNG could have been as visually gory as "The War of the Worlds" that was made at the same time - which would put that season 1 story with the invading shrimp and scampi to shame. And gore can complement a scene, especially in sci-fi and horror. Most of us have seen it dozens of times and in at least one show. )

Viewers can still not like the change but I'm not going to shriek "KURTZMAN IS _____ AND MUST MUST ______!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Let's be fair. Orville is a comedy. Also, Kelly cheated on Ed. And while I thought Ed stalking her was a bit over the top (which is ok in acomedy) it shows how insecure he is, and his scene with Cassius played very well. Plus, his advice to Cassius about Journey is so Orville..

The show isn't like it's toppling Trek and being better than Trek was at it's prime. But I think it "gets" Trek, it also has a soul. And man "Sanctuary" alone is like one the best solid hours of Trek I've ever seen

 

[fireproof78]

The franchise is also big enough at this point to encompass more formats and where one won't bring down the umbrella.

Exactly.

Let's be fair. Orville is a comedy.

Let's be fair: "Lower Decks is a comedy."

And, no matter what, Orville is not Trek to me. I don't want it to be and its constant efforts to do so take away from its identity.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Fair enough. But I like that it is Trek to me.. more than Discovery (even though Mount and Peck were good) and Picard (a show which I appreciated quite a bit) Orville actually has conversations about things they used to talk about in Trek, it has themes, it has characters I like to spend time with. People are always saying when is Orville going to be it's own thing and I think to myself.. I'm in no hurry... I'm not getting this kind of star Trek from Star Trek. Seth could have gotten a green-light on any show he wanted, but he chose this. He could have hired anyone he wanted, but he got the people that produced and photographed 90s Trek, because that's what he wanted. So - like I said, as someone who is in their 40's I just want to enjoy it, and I don't care who owns the IP.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I would have posted in the Orville thread but I wanted to respond directly.. Plus that is for a season that has not aired yet

 

[fireproof78]

So - like I said, as someone who is in their 40's I just want to enjoy it, and I don't care who owns the IP.

And that's fair. But, understand that Trek doesn't need to be static and in fact will do damage in the long run to the viability of the franchise. There is a reason why some (note: not all!) TOS fans didn't make it over to TNG. It was too much of a change. So, of course I expect pushback with things like DSC, Picard, and Lower Decks. Certainly I pushed back against TNG and my dad (huge TOS fan) never go in to 90s Trek. He loves Kelvin Trek though.

So, while I appreciate the enthusiasm with the Orville I think that insisting that Trek conform to that 90s box is going to restrict it more than enhance it.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I guess I'll just add that while it conforms to the 90s model, the devil is in the details and there are many differences. I just appreciate that I can focus on the drama in the one or two camera set ups . I just don't think Trek via game of thrones model has really worked for Disco