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TOS Prequel #4

Here is the other thing I “dislike” about modern Trek and going all the way back to TNG where it started (as far as I can tell). It wasn’t so obvious at first, but it got worse as time went on.

I hate the way it’s written. The characters don’t talk like real people—they talk like comic book characters. They often talk in a way that strikes me as the writers think the viewer is stupid and needs to be led by the hand and have every little thing explained. It drives me nuts.

Small example. In TNG’s “Lower Decks” near the end Picard makes an all decks call to talk about the loss of a young crew member. He doesn’t start by saying, “Attention all hands, this is the Captain.” Nope, he starts with, “Attention all Starfleet personnel...”

And just who the fuck else is aboard the 1701D? Yeah, it seems like such a small thing, but it bugs me. It doesn’t sound real. It sounds like how it would be read in a comic book. And this sort of thing would get progressively worse in each successive series.

In TOS they stressed they were writing drama that was simply set aboard a starship rather than a contemporary courtroom, police station or western frontier town. What the characters were saying and how they said it could be almost wholly done the same no matter the setting. But thats not how modern Trek is written. Modern Trek so often so damned contrived that leaves me feeling no one really talks that way.

Modern Trek battle scenes are also boring as hell. There is no real tension. It’s “shields at thirty percent” and “full spread, fire at will.” There is no sense of real military thought behind it. There is no sense of tactics or strategy. It’s just show a screen overflowing with dogfighting ships shooting at everything. It’s long, long, long become such a cliche.
 
If fans want new, why make it Star Trek at all?

It's a good framework to tell intriguing and humane stories.

But they don't have to connect to the same characters and ships we've known before. It just gets silly. Made sense in PIC i guess that he'd call on Um ... spoiler? better be careful. But there were SO many callbacks, and not all of them needful or used well. DSC: why make it so TOS related at all? Why Burnham have to be related to THE SPOCK?

Oddly, some of that familial stuff was the best written in S2, better than the Red Angel AI shite. But why couldn't a ship named DSC go off and be its own Trek thing from the get go? HIGHLY likely its subscription rates in S1 would be unchanged if Burnham were just some rando first officer, and not another Sarek experiment.
 
DS9 Seasons 6 and 7 got space combat as "right"(i.e. entertaining and dynamic) as any Trek series before or since. The battles between the Federation and Alliance fleets and Dominion and Breen forces were great then and they still hold up today.

DSC may have a lot more money to throw at the screen but even the Battle of the Binary Stars and the showdown between the Discovery and Enterprise and the Section 31 fleet couldn't match what the producers in the late '90s put on the small screen. It may not have been exactly what we'd picture deep space combat to really look like but it was a helluva lot more entertaining than what DSC has thus far given us.
 
I think they are trying to make money using it. If it doesn't work for you as a part of the TOS universe, either ignore it or treat it like an alternate universe.

I already do, Bill! It's far too different to be considered in the same reality in my opinion. :techman:
JB
 
DS9 Seasons 6 and 7 got space combat as "right"(i.e. entertaining and dynamic) as any Trek series before or since. The battles between the Federation and Alliance fleets and Dominion and Breen forces were great then and they still hold up today.
They never worked for me. Ships WAY too close together (admittedly this is ALWAYS an issue) and only the ones in the foreground firing? If you look deeper into the field of battle you see Fed and Dominion ships swooping near each other but doing nothing. Give me the Disco S2 finale battle any day, where EVERYONE is shooting.
 
Here is the other thing I “dislike” about modern Trek and going all the way back to TNG where it started (as far as I can tell). It wasn’t so obvious at first, but it got worse as time went on.

I hate the way it’s written. The characters don’t talk like real people—they talk like comic book characters. They often talk in a way that strikes me as the writers think the viewer is stupid and needs to be led by the hand and have every little thing explained. It drives me nuts.

Small example. In TNG’s “Lower Decks” near the end Picard makes an all decks call to talk about the loss of a young crew member. He doesn’t start by saying, “Attention all hands, this is the Captain.” Nope, he starts with, “Attention all Starfleet personnel...”

And just who the fuck else is aboard the 1701D? Yeah, it seems like such a small thing, but it bugs me. It doesn’t sound real. It sounds like how it would be read in a comic book. And this sort of thing would get progressively worse in each successive series.

The Enterprise-D had a large complement of civilian residents and family onboard. It would make sense for him and Sisko (but not Kirk, Janeway, or Archer) to have to parse his words sometimes in such a manner.
 
^^ And why wouldn’t he simply address everyone aboard who no doubt would ave known or learned of this young officer’s death or why she went missing?
 
^^ And why wouldn’t he simply address everyone aboard who no doubt would ave known or learned of this young officer’s death or why she went missing?

Maybe he didn't want to scare the kids or dolphins. Maybe he felt it only appropriate to inform the Starfleet personnel first and let the information disseminate from there. I always assume there's an unseen delay when communications like these go out, which would give the computer time to relay the info to the intended recipients.

I get what you're saying though. There's a lot of crazy, unrealistic dialogue onscreen, especially lately with Discovery particularly trying to ape the "Star Trek" way of speaking. But the example you chose seems to be one of the few times that makes the most sense given what we know and can assume. Picard isn't like Kirk, he doesn't often send messages shipwide, especially with a 1000+ complement and "city in space", and it was nice that the writers acknowledged this in Lower Decks.
 
Don’t get me wrong. During a rewatch awhile back there was a good deal of TNG I liked, mostly in the first three or four seasons. But after that the things that would really bug me about Trek really took root and carried on throughout successive productions up to today.
 
My wife gets mad because I can predict the comic-y dialog like 5 times an ep and this is in DS9 the tiffany of Treks. Which I've only seen twice before, it's not like I have the dialog memorized. Watch the fan productions and you can really sense the dialogue tropes they're aping so often. PIC was esp disappointing in the dialog department because of Chabon's creds. I mean it was ok but I jus t e xpected greatness. In post TOSTrek, Avery Brooks actually sounds and reacts like a real person, not a Star Trek character. No one else comes to mind . All the Spocks get interesting dialog and are supposed to sound other. Brian Keith in his guest shot on D S9 was noticeable. I t took me out of it a bit actually, he sounded so different. Ah it is what it is. Now with Pike I wont care, if they have sf plots, not just defeat-the-evil-X.
 
As TNG and successive series progressed it was so easy to envision a drawer full of rubber stamps for established dialog for given scenes.
 
That bridge is a thing of beauty.

RAMA

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Here is the other thing I “dislike” about modern Trek and going all the way back to TNG where it started (as far as I can tell). It wasn’t so obvious at first, but it got worse as time went on.

I hate the way it’s written. The characters don’t talk like real people—they talk like comic book characters. They often talk in a way that strikes me as the writers think the viewer is stupid and needs to be led by the hand and have every little thing explained. It drives me nuts.

Small example. In TNG’s “Lower Decks” near the end Picard makes an all decks call to talk about the loss of a young crew member. He doesn’t start by saying, “Attention all hands, this is the Captain.” Nope, he starts with, “Attention all Starfleet personnel...”

And just who the fuck else is aboard the 1701D? Yeah, it seems like such a small thing, but it bugs me. It doesn’t sound real. It sounds like how it would be read in a comic book. And this sort of thing would get progressively worse in each successive series.

In TOS they stressed they were writing drama that was simply set aboard a starship rather than a contemporary courtroom, police station or western frontier town. What the characters were saying and how they said it could be almost wholly done the same no matter the setting. But thats not how modern Trek is written. Modern Trek so often so damned contrived that leaves me feeling no one really talks that way.

Modern Trek battle scenes are also boring as hell. There is no real tension. It’s “shields at thirty percent” and “full spread, fire at will.” There is no sense of real military thought behind it. There is no sense of tactics or strategy. It’s just show a screen overflowing with dogfighting ships shooting at everything. It’s long, long, long become such a cliche.

That's why TOS is the best Trek of the lot! :techman:
JB
 
For what it's worth, as someone who wasn't a fan of Rick Berman's reign: I like DSC and PIC a lot better than TNG, DS9, VOY, or ENT.

Bear in mind I'm also lukewarm about the Abrams Films. I didn't hate them but I didn't love them either.

DSC is a darker, moodier, edgier version of DS9.

I'm not going to lie. That's kind of what drew me into it in the beginning... :devil:

But, as I mentioned before, way back when, I was also a fan of the new Battlestar Galactica.
 
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For what it's worth, as someone who wasn't a fan of Rick Berman's reign: I like DSC and PIC a lot better than TNG, DS9, VOY, or ENT.

I find much of TNG to be unwatchable some 20 years on. I loved it as it was happening, but it never had rerun value to me. And I always felt Star Trek needed that. However, a talky drama does not a return visit make. Not for me. When it was great, it was outstanding, but it wasn't great often enough.

DS9: I loved the characters, but their need to pick plots based on their favorite movies or hobbies was a little tiresome ("hey let's Casablanca, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, The Alamo, etc!!!"). However, it had better rerun value.

Voyager: I enjoyed their high concept stuff, but mostly it was just BS tech solutions and flaccid characters.

Enterprise: surprisingly, I really like this series. A rough start, but I really enjoyed the "astronauts going into the great unknown" feel. The decon rubdowns were cringeworthy, but I enjoyed the series.

Discovery: wasn't happy with the first season - too negative and mean spirited. The second year? LOVED it.

Picard: a crushing disappointment.
 
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