The Stargate Franchise - A First Timer's Watchthrough

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, I remember comparisons to the Prophets and Pah-Wraiths being made back in the day. It's especially noticeable with the whole fire thing.

I'd say the key difference between the Goa'uld and Ori storylines is that the Ori story has more of a religious angle to it. Yes, the Goa'uld posed as gods and made their followers worship them, as do the Ori, but the Ori even have a religion built around them including their own bible which the Priors frequently quote from. Not to mention something which will be brought up in coming episodes,

Spoiler

the Ori actually drain power from their followers, which is a key reason why they have mandatory "church services" they must attend.

At times the Ori storyline is at times criticized by some as being negative towards religion and the religious, and as the storyline develops there are certainly some undeniable parallels to medieval Catholicism. Many also say the story draws from America's military presence in the Middle East, in that the enemy now is a group of religious extremists. Although I generally rate seasons 9 and 10 lower than the first 8, there's undeniably plenty of food for thought provided by these episodes worth discussing.

 

[DonIago]

I'm not sure about the more religious angle part. I mean, we saw the Abydonians performing worship rituals with regards to Ra, and the residents of Chu'lak seemed to worship Apophis and the other Goa'uld. Perhaps the only reason we didn't see any 'biblical' services was because the Goa'uld didn't utilize Christian mythology. The closest we got in that regard seems to have been Sokar, who ultimately was a bit of a let-down I think.

Granted the Goa'uld didn't directly benefit from their followers' worship as the Ori do their worshippers, but that may be a distinction without a difference?

There's more I might like to say in this regard, but it could get spoilerish.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Origin (SG-1)

And one episode later the Ori are scary as hell. I guess that makes literal sense considering they are fiery, but yeah I'm convinced. They think the Ancients are evil and want to spread the word of the Ori to non-believers or they will destroy them. Also, the Priors look scary as well with the staffs and the white ugly looking faces. This episode made it feel like the series relaunched itself and while Avalon didn't convince me, I think Origin did that the series is in good hands. I'm really excited to see where this goes, and I even liked the ending with O'Neill and Daniel and then taking the joyride in the 302 with Mitchell. There were only two negatives I had about this episode. Mitchell always bringing up his grandmother and no Carter.

I think the show did a great job of making the Ori a serious threat. And just wait till the S9 finale to see that threat step up another notch.

I do think the Ori arc presents an interesting philosophical question. The Goauld were pretenders. They were posing as gods. But what do you do with beings who are ascended to a higher plane, with genuine power, and who created life. In many ways, the Ori are god-like. The difference is that they are very evil because of how they use that power. But you can't deny their very real god-like powers.

The upcoming episode "The Powers That Be" has an interesting scene where Daniel debates with an Prior on the nature of religion.

I wonder how they are going to get Carter back.

Wait for the excellent episode "Beachhead".

 

[Jayson1]

The Ties That Bind (SG-1)

This episode reminded me of the DS9 episode Treachery Faith and the Great River, only we get to see the actual negotiations to get Vala what she needed. You guys weren't kidding when you were talking about Vala being different than Aeryn. Granted, Aeryn was sexy in her own right, but I think Vala is taking it to the next level. She continues to be the best character this season and I loved the scene where she's takling to the Senator and his manhood and the looks on the committee's faces (especially the woman) were priceless. This was a ton of fun.

I forgot to mention something in the previous episodes and I might as well bring it up here. It looks like the Jaffa are free, but they are struggling to figure out how to keep that freedom and govern on their own. I guess that's Teal'c's story this season, dealing with their new leader, Garak. Not sure how interested I am in that storyline yet, but I am glad they are tackling the issue of you finally get what you want, now what happens.

I'm thinking now I might take @Farscape One's advice and have the next two episodes I see be SG-1. I've met Ronan, and Vala and Daniel are still linked together. Besides, it's only two more episodes.

To me Vala is Anise done right. The Stargate shows usually don't go for overt sexual characters or situations but they tried at least twice and Anise in the end didn't work out. Vala though was very sexy but also with a great sense of humor and little bit of edge with being a thief and all but mostly just fun. Also her first outfit she wore in the season opener was pretty eye popping at least to me in terms of sexy outfits.

Jason

 

[bigdaddy]

The Ties That Bind (SG-1)

I forgot to mention something in the previous episodes and I might as well bring it up here. It looks like the Jaffa are free, but they are struggling to figure out how to keep that freedom and govern on their own. I guess that's Teal'c's story this season, dealing with their new leader, Garak.

I'm thinking now I might take @Farscape One's advice and have the next two episodes I see be SG-1. I've met Ronan, and Vala and Daniel are still linked together. Besides, it's only two more episodes.

When they were planning on this being Stargate Command I'm pretty sure Teal'c was going to be leader of the Jaffa and would guest star. It's interesting because he's the character in the most SG-1 episodes.

Also I gave you the same advise and was rejected. Feels like we are dating now.

 

[tomalak301]

Also I gave you the same advise and was rejected. Feels like we are dating now.

Didn't you say the first three episodes? If I missed another post, than I apologize. I do have more information now to the point where finishing this part of the SG-1 arc makes sense, especially with just two more episodes. Before, I was told to alternate between the two series and the first Atlantis episode I saw yesterday was because of timing and the second I saw last night was because I've been excited to finally see Momoa's introduction to the series. Now that I'm past that, I can have a little more flexibility.

In fact, I've been thinking about the whole alternating thing and maybe it might make a little more sense to do episodes in bunches. So for example it's 3 straight episodes of SG-1 followed by 3 Straight episodes of Atlantis. Now that I'm watching both storylines, I don't really want to finish a season before returning to the other. Also, the recommendation guide that I'm following did say there are not many points of contact between Season 2 of Atlantis and Season 9 of SG-1.

 

[tomalak301]

To me Vala is Anise done right. The Stargate shows usually don't go for overt sexual characters or situations but they tried at least twice and Anise in the end didn't work out. Vala though was very sexy but also with a great sense of humor and little bit of edge with being a thief and all but mostly just fun. Also her first outfit she wore in the season opener was pretty eye popping at least to me in terms of sexy outfits.

I almost forgot about Anise. That's a pretty good comparison. It felt like Anise was brought in to sex things up. She ended up being kind of a bland character. Vala has multiple dimensions to her character, from Thief to attractiveness to just knowing how to survive. In fact, one of my favorite scenes in the 4th episode was in Daniel's room and Vala was talking about being shunned because she had a host and how it impacted her having any kind of long term relationship and how these short term relationships are like a defense mechanism. Well, it turned out she was joking about it, but considering what we know so far, I wonder if some of that was actually true.

 

[DonIago]

My main issue with Anise was that in "Upgrades" she screws SG-1 over, and how anyone was supposed to entirely trust her after that, much less want to have sexytimes with her, was beyond me.

Uneasy ally with some potential for redemption I maybe could have bought, but she didn't appear enough times for that to work.

I'm not familiar enough with the actor's work to say how much of the blame may lie with her performance versus other factors.

 

[bigdaddy]

Didn't you say the first three episodes? If I missed another post, than I apologize. I do have more information now to the point where finishing this part of the SG-1 arc makes sense, especially with just two more episodes .

I said you should watch the last five of season 8, then Atlantis, then the first 3-5 of season 9. Everyone replied it was too complicated. I feel switching back and forth is complicated.

Bunches might work. After season 1 of Atlantis I'm not really up to date with plot points. But I don't think there is anything too major about the two shows going on. Season 10 at some point there is a crossover.

 

[David cgc]

The big difference is the Goa'uld were posing as gods. The Ori, basically, ARE gods. Not only does it pose difficulty in getting rid of the threat, it can make people question whether their own belief systems are accurate.

There was a throwaway line in "Threads" where Bra'tac and Teal'c were telling Jack the Jaffa had decided to make the issue of the Dakara weapon moot by raising an army and killing Anubis immediately. Jack points out that they aren't sure it's even possible to kill Anubis, and Teal'c notes that it'd be best not to say that to all the recently-liberated Jaffa.

They are, after all, used to worshiping a god, seeing that god's ass get kicked, and then moving on to worshiping the god that beat up their old god. You start spreading around that the Tau'ri think Anubis is the real deal, there are a lot people who are going to think they should get with Anubis.

 

[Farscape One]

Interesting observation with her and Anise.

Vanessa Angel was Lisa on the WEIRD SCIENCE series. She was quite fun, not to mention incredibly sexy. I don't think it's performance that was the problem.

In this case, I think it's chemistry between actors. Claudia Black quickly gelled onscreen with everyone. Vanessa Angel didn't.

The underlying thing there might simply be nationality. I can tell you from experience that Australians have an amazingly open sense of humor. Probably the most fun group of people I've ever met, generally speaking. Look at FARSCAPE. A lot of what made that show great, I truly believe was where it was produced. Except for Ben Browder, it was all actors/actresses from Australia and New Zealand, even the guest stars with a few exceptions.

Not saying Vanessa is not as funny or nice as Claudia, because I've met both at DragonCon. But I wonder if there are, when on set, certain personal mental barriers that go up with actors/actresses that come from an American background vs. an Australian one.

 

[Farscape One]

I said you should watch the last five of season 8, then Atlantis, then the first 3-5 of season 9. Everyone replied it was too complicated. I feel switching back and forth is complicated.

Bunches might work. After season 1 of Atlantis I'm not really up to date with plot points. But I don't think there is anything too major about the two shows going on. Season 10 at some point there is a crossover.

I'm pretty sure you don't need to alternate from this point on, with the exception of watching THE ARK OF TRUTH directly after SG1 season 10 and before SGA season 4. (If memory serves me, CONTINUUM is best watched after the SGA season 5 premiere. A slight continuity thing will make it more seamless this way.)

Obviously, watch the 2-parters of both shows back to back, but otherwise you can do pretty much any method. Even "THE PEGASUS PROJECT", the big season 10 crossover, doesn't really have any spoiler issues watching in any viewing order, if memory serves me.


Of course, you could always do what we had to do while both shows were on the air... watch one of each at a time. Once a week.

 

[tomalak301]

I guess I just got so used to doing it in Season 8/1 that it doesn't really matter much to me anymore. I think one thing that is making it incredibly easier is I'm watching on Amazon Prime and there are no ads, so it doesn't take as long. I remember last year when I was watching Buffy on Hulu, I didn't have the ad free version so switching between Buffy and Angel was a lot more tedious, and Buffy's season 5 was so great that switching to Angel after every episode did feel like a buzzkill because I was eager to see how Buffy would end. With SG-1 and Atlantis, I've been fascinated in both shows equally that I don't really feel that Buzzkill feeling. Of course I'm not trying to dog on Angel as I really liked Angel, but for some reason I found it more rewarding to watch Buffy first and then Angel. This time I'm finding both shows great.

As for Anise, I didn't have anything against Angel's acting. In fact it was probably the one thing that saved the character. I only wish she had better chemistry and Upgrades was mentioned and yeah she did kind of screw SG-1 over.

As for the religious debate, I've been trying to see what kind of things I can comment on in terms of religion and for some reason I can't really articulate it well. I was thinking last night about the difference between the Goa'ulds and Ori and I wonder if the idea of faith might have anything to do with it. I mean the Goa'ulds were false gods, and as we saw the Jaffa were basically brainwashed into believing anything the Goa'ulds said and they were conditioned that way for Generations. With the Ori, it feels like they have built up that whole faith aspect, where an outside observer would see those villagers, see what the Priors were, and maybe see the Doci and believe that the Ori were really gods. I'm a catholic and I think the thing I'm keeping in mind is the Ori almost represent religo-facism. (That's not a word, I know) This is an actual religion taken to the very extreme. It will be interesting to see how this develops as I go. As someone who does practice a religion, I'm actually pretty excited to see this storyline because I'm not naive to believe that Religion has done a lot of harm over the centuries. They've done a lot of good too, but most times it feels like the bad outweighs the good but then bad news sells.

 

[fireproof78]

As someone who does practice a religion, I'm actually pretty excited to see this storyline because I'm not naive to believe that Religion has done a lot of harm over the centuries. They've done a lot of good too, but most times it feels like the bad outweighs the good but then bad news sells.

This is why the Ori intrigued me so much. We moved very much in to the realm of something highly relatable and the potential for abuse. I am religious myself and found the Ori storylines and questions of faith and religion intriguing. I'm not blind to religion's ills, but I feel that the good outweighs the bad, even today, but the bad gets the headlines.

 

[bigdaddy]

I'm not religious at all, but the Ori can do so much that at what point does a god become a god? I see that's what Stargate was going for. You had fake gods with tech, not you have actual being with incredible power.

Daniel died twice, does that make him super jesus?

 

[Romulan_spy]

As for the religious debate, I've been trying to see what kind of things I can comment on in terms of religion and for some reason I can't really articulate it well. I was thinking last night about the difference between the Goa'ulds and Ori and I wonder if the idea of faith might have anything to do with it. I mean the Goa'ulds were false gods, and as we saw the Jaffa were basically brainwashed into believing anything the Goa'ulds said and they were conditioned that way for Generations. With the Ori, it feels like they have built up that whole faith aspect, where an outside observer would see those villagers, see what the Priors were, and maybe see the Doci and believe that the Ori were really gods. I'm a catholic and I think the thing I'm keeping in mind is the Ori almost represent religo-facism. (That's not a word, I know) This is an actual religion taken to the very extreme. It will be interesting to see how this develops as I go. As someone who does practice a religion, I'm actually pretty excited to see this storyline because I'm not naive to believe that Religion has done a lot of harm over the centuries. They've done a lot of good too, but most times it feels like the bad outweighs the good but then bad news sells.

I am a Christian too and I did not take the Ori story to be an attack on my religion. There are plenty of scenes where it is obvious that the writers were being tolerant and respectful of Christianity and other religions. There is a briefing scene between SG1 and Landy where they talk about the possibility of a Higher Power above the Ori that comes to mind. The Ori village looks medieval. There is a S9 episode entitled "Crusade". So the Ori story does borrow some imagery from the early medieval Crusades but I think it is meant as an allegory for when religion goes too far and becomes fanatic and extreme. The show was bashing abuse and fanaticism, not bashing Christianity or religion itself.

 

[tomalak301]

Daniel died twice, does that make him super jesus?

Considering the kind of beard he's growing in Season 9, maybe.

 

[JD]

You should watch it and then do a a thread like this. I'd love to hear what you think of the last season.

Runner (SG: A)

This episode was one of the reasons I wanted to continue to alternate episodes rather than just binging SG-1 for it's first 6. We finally meet the last regular cast member (That I know of) of the series, Ronan Dex (Jason Momoa).

There are more regulars to come, I think Beckett ends up a regular for at least a season or 2, and there are a three or four other characters who come in later as regulars.

Even "THE PEGASUS PROJECT", the big season 10 crossover, doesn't really have any spoiler issues watching in any viewing order, if memory serves me.

Was that just one episode or was that one like the Arrowverse shows where the story starts on one and finished on the other? I remember a few of the big plot points of that one, but that's about it.

 

[David cgc]

Was that just one episode or was that one like the Arrowverse shows where the story starts on one and finished on the other? I remember a few of the big plot points of that one, but that's about it.

Stargate never did a single story spread across episodes of two different series like the Arrowverse does now. The crossovers, while frequent, were more of the "Hey, I know that person/species/event!" and "Where'd that ZPM come from/What happened to that ZPM?" variety.

 

[Romulan_spy]

The scene I was referring to is from the S9x3 episode "Origin". It's a great scene that addresses the issues we've been talking about of Goauld versus Ori, false gods versus true gods. But I feel like the line at the end was deliberately respectful of real world religions like Christianity. The characters could have taken an atheist point of view but they don't. They hint at the possibility that God could be real.

LANDRY: So you think we should expect more of these Priors to show up?
DANIEL: I would be very surprised if they didn't.
MITCHELL: How? We know one came through the Stargate, but if their galaxy is so far away—
VALA: I suspect the Ori have the power to make a lot of things happen.
DANIEL: Still, for the Priors, I think we can assume it's a one-way trip.
MITCHELL: Don't think they have a problem with self-sacrifice.
LANDRY: You think the Ancients here in our galaxy will continue to stop the Ori from using their power to attack us directly?
DANIEL: I hope so. I…
MITCHELL: So how do we fight these guys? And I mean the message as much as the men. A lot of folks out there are going to buy what these guys are selling.
TEAL'C: Hopefully, now many have been educated to the ways of false gods.
VALA: Yes, but we're not talking about humans with snakes in their heads with a slightly better understanding of technology.
DANIEL: See, their power isn't false. The Priors are going to offer to people what will seem like proof of God.
LANDRY: Proof of powerful beings is not proof of God.
DANIEL: I'm not saying it is.
MITCHELL: Look, just because we know there is some beings on a higher plane of existence than ourselves does not mean there's not an order of being higher than them. At least I reckon that's what my Grandma'd say.
VALA: And the universe is supposedly infinite.
LANDRY: Which in my book makes it's impossible to know everything. I mean, somewhere in there, you gotta fill in the blanks with a little faith. (looks at Mitchell) I had a grandma too.