1960's and risqué clothes?

[jaime]

Oh, you would have found plenty enough to complain about.

Watch ‘who mourns for adonias’ yesterday. It’s the forgotten classic for ‘fifties’ values in Trek isn’t it. Goodness me. Good old Scotty though...not sure if he constantly getting zapped after laying claim to Palomas with a coffee is progressive or not though...

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Watch ‘who mourns for adonias’ yesterday. It’s the forgotten classic for ‘fifties’ values in Trek isn’t it. Goodness me. Good old Scotty though...not sure if he constantly getting zapped after laying claim to Palomas with a coffee is progressive or not though...

Scotty is not a lucky guy when it comes to rescuing women from danger. Apollo, Nomad, and the Lights of Zetar all tossed him through the air with what amounts to a finger flick. After Mira left, I'll bet he swore off women for good.

 

[jaime]

Scotty is not a lucky guy when it comes to rescuing women from danger. Apollo, Nomad, and the Lights of Zetar all tossed him through the air with what amounts to a finger flick. After Mira left, I'll bet he swore off women for good.

See, there’s your representation. Years before Stamets. He even grew a Freddie Mercury tribute moustache.

 

[Ssosmcin]

See, there’s your representation. Years before Stamets. He even grew a Freddie Mercury tribute moustache.

 

[Spot261]

Well there is some disagreement as to whether the women in question are actually being objectified....

And when they are, no, that's not good. And yet you might actually find other things to like about the episode anyway. If you looked past all the objectification, that is.

A very clear distinction should have been made many pages ago between objectification of the character and objectification of the performer. They are not one and the same.

The character may well in universe make choices which are entirely empowering, but the performer portraying them might feel differently. We should be careful not to confuse the two.

 

[jaime]

A very clear distinction should have been made many pages ago between objectification of the character and objectification of the performer. They are not one and the same.

The character may well in universe make choices which are entirely empowering, but the performer portraying them might feel differently. We should be careful not to confuse the two.

Marina certainly has a good chunk of humour around her brains in relation to her cleavage, but it seems a little tongue in cheek...and very funny.

 

[Nakita Akita]

A very clear distinction should have been made many pages ago between objectification of the character and objectification of the performer. They are not one and the same.

The character may well in universe make choices which are entirely empowering, but the performer portraying them might feel differently. We should be careful not to confuse the two.

In either case though what does it say to the public/viewer?
In the 60's I'm sure that nobody knew what the actresses felt or thought themselves.
I'm sure most people would just belive that the actress agreed with whatever they were portraying on screen.
From my perspective, it's sad that, for the most part what 'dates' most of the Trek shows are the "fashions" the women are forced to adopt.

 

[BillJ]

In either case though what does it say to the public/viewer?
In the 60's I'm sure that nobody knew what the actresses felt or thought themselves.
I'm sure most people would just belive that the actress agreed with whatever they were portraying on screen.
From my perspective, it's sad that, for the most part what 'dates' most of the Trek shows are the "fashions" the women are forced to adopt.

Entertainment was a male-dominated field for a long time. We can't take the mistakes made back, but hopefully we can learn from them.

 

[Poltargyst]

A very clear distinction should have been made many pages ago between objectification of the character and objectification of the performer. They are not one and the same.

The character may well in universe make choices which are entirely empowering, but the performer portraying them might feel differently. We should be careful not to confuse the two.

Interesting.

 

[Poltargyst]

You haven't seen Plato's Stepchildren yet then, Nakita?
JB

You mean the episode that is NOT the worst of the series and has some genuinely good things about it?

 

[cooleddie74]

It's not even in my Bottom 3 TOS episodes.

 

[Ssosmcin]

It's not even in my Bottom 3 TOS episodes.

Mine either. A few others are worse in my book.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Plato's Stepchildren" has an ominous, dark undertone that prevents the story from becoming as campy as the setting and costumes might lead one to believe.

 

[Nakita Akita]

You haven't seen Plato's Stepchildren yet then, Nakita?
JB

I don't think I did. It seems I almost always miss the beginning, when they have the title.
I watched part of Harry Mudd's women tonight.
I almost thought at the end it was going to have the barbarian miner find himself happy with the woman that didn't have on 1/2 pound of make up,
But even without the magic pill, suddenly her face has makeup.
She looked human but I guess she was supposed to be an alien.( If you are an alien, if you concentrate, you have on make up. )

I still, for a moment thought the barbarian miner was going to tell her he like her just fine 'without the makeup'.
Venus drug, possibly left off victory, love and fertility.

 

[Poltargyst]

I don't think I did. It seems I almost always miss the beginning, when they have the title.
I watched part of Harry Mudd's women tonight.
I almost thought at the end it was going to have the barbarian miner find himself happy with the woman that didn't have on 1/2 pound of make up,
But even without the magic pill, suddenly her face has makeup.
She looked human but I guess she was supposed to be an alien.( If you are an alien, if you concentrate, you have on make up. )

I still, for a moment thought the barbarian miner was going to tell her he like her just fine 'without the makeup'.
Venus drug, possibly left off victory, love and fertility.

She wasn't alien. It had something to do with her believing herself beautiful and it happening without any more need for the drug. Power of belief kind of thing.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Marina certainly has a good chunk of humour around her brains in relation to her cleavage, but it seems a little tongue in cheek...and very funny.

Yes. In the annual TNG review issue of Cinefantastique after she switched to the standard Starfleet uniform, when she was asked what she'd say to cleavage-deprived fans, she said, "Just tell them to pause the VCR on my 'Man of the People' dress."

 

[C57D]

I cannot believe that 395 replies later we are still discussing womens rights in TOS. Yes it was sexist, yes women wore revealing clothes and impossibly short (and very impractical) minidress uniforms. No it never showed women in command.
But so what?
It is a product of its time and should not be judged by our modern sensibilities.
You either accept it as such and get on with your life or you decide it offends you and go watch something else.
Simple!

 

[johnnybear]

You mean the episode that is NOT the worst of the series and has some genuinely good things about it?

Oh it definitely was the worst! The BBC banned the damn thing for years if that wasn't enough evidence!
Nakita, the woman, Eve, might not have been born on Earth but she was still considered human!
JB

 

[BillJ]

I cannot believe that 395 replies later we are still discussing womens rights in TOS. Yes it was sexist, yes women wore revealing clothes and impossibly short (and very impractical) minidress uniforms. No it never showed women in command.
But so what?
It is a product of its time and should not be judged by our modern sensibilities.
You either accept it as such and get on with your life or you decide it offends you and go watch something else.
Simple!

It is never simple. TOS carries forward as an example both of things it got right and things it got wrong. Acknowledging what it got wrong doesn’t mean one needs to abandon it.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I cannot believe that 395 replies later we are still discussing womens rights in TOS. Yes it was sexist, yes women wore revealing clothes and impossibly short (and very impractical) minidress uniforms. No it never showed women in command.
But so what?
It is a product of its time and should not be judged by our modern sensibilities.
You either accept it as such and get on with your life or you decide it offends you and go watch something else.
Simple!

C'mon, gimme a break here.
It's what we do, judge stuff from the past with modern sensibilities.
Sometimes the issues are hundreds of years in the past that we judge.