1960's and risqué clothes?

[Spot261]

By all accounts, Burt Ward is better endowed than John Holmes. They finally decided to disguise his unit, not with a cup, but with a plate.

I find that a pasta serving dish usually suffices provided nothing too exciting happens.

 

[Neopeius]

This thread is absolutely fascinating, and thank you, T'Bonz for your insight on teen/adult women's fashion of the time. Galactic Journey is now in '65, and it's important that we look reasonably period at events.

I appreciated the discussion of bottoms...from a costuming perspective. It is interesting to note whether they were sewn in or separate. On a related point, one thing that always fascinated me is that Uhura appears to be wearing a conventional white bra in the first season (it shows up in a couple of episodes) but by Season 2 (I believe Mirror, Mirror), it's red, matching the uniform.

I *think* she's the only cast member where we see under-top garments. Was the latter bra off-the-shelf or specifically designed for the uniform?

 

[Nakita Akita]

Not to sound patronising but no it wasn't. The thread as posted by @Nakita Akita was about the impact of wardrobe choices on the show's performance and how the social pressures of the time impinged on that.

There have been examples of many types of clothes brought up but it has always been in the context of the show, who was making the decisions and what impact those decisions may have had.

Nakita please correct me if I'm wrong?

The thread is about Trek uniforms and the impractical,objectification, ridiculousness the females of the show were subject to.

I belive some men felt that the clothing 'restrictions' on women ..... Who knows what, because they didn't/ don't have to deal with it, so the subject veered into various ridiculous clothing the women were subject to in the other Trek series. Including my being pressured into having to wear outfits similar to the ones Beverly and Troi are wearing in the mirrored room. (Horrifying)


I thought the objectification of women is probably what kept the show on the air.
Possibly all of them to some extent.




Although, I have never seen the one with Scott Bakula. (At all, zero)

I'm not a Super Trek maniac fan or whatever, and never had much feeling one way or the other about Gene Roddenberry.
I think though that most if not all of the women on Trek auditioned on the casting couch. But that's Hollywood for you and that's been the game for a century it seems.
But I don't really know anything about the guy for certain.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Fascinating discussion, here. And so well covered I couldn’t possibly add anything.

As a young male I didn’t have any issue with the TOS skirt uniforms, but as I aged I quickly saw they didn’t make much sense even as an expression of feminine empowerment, and certainly not in a quasi military organization with potential for hazardous duty. And not in terms of decorum either given all the different races and mindsets Starfleet is supposed to represent.

I agree with the idea posted upthread that the skirts should have been somewhat longer akin to that worn by Areel Shaw, and that it be alternative wear for shipboard and starbase duty. Landing party duty would have mandated trousers for practicality and safety, along with field jackets realistically. Of course, in the real world that would have meant increased expense in terms of costuming.

Part of the problem (I see) with the early pilot uniforms is that the uniforms look just okay, but not that great likely due to the materiel used. The pilot uniforms look rather shapeless. The colours were also a bit too muted (for my taste anyway). And, honestly, the female tunics looked really odd with the extra fabric around the collar. Sadly the brief look we get at a series era female tunic and trousers uniform looks weirder with the open neck (like the TOS skirt uniform) and too short tunic.

It’s a pity Theiss didn’t come up with a series era female uniform with a better collar more consistent with the male tunic. I will say that although I don’t care for the execution of the uniforms in JJtrek and DSC the female versions of the uniforms work better overall than the original TOS versions.

Imagine being 9-11 years old girl and noticing and thinking just as I did in the Original Post of this thread?( the show was in re-run)
Imagine thinking, 'cool, this show is going to have women, flying in space ships, shooting evil aliens, defending the planets!'
Then sitting and watching grown women wearing dresses like I had when I was three.
I suppose possibly they didn't have the Ruffles undies like I wore when I was three.
Then to see that the do pretty much nothing other than serve the men, and act sexy.

I detested the show when I watched it at age 9-11.
I watched a few episodes of Mext Generation, and, pretty much the same thing. Troi and Security Cheif Yar wearing miniskirt, short sleeve cheerleader dresses.
Everyone was quit to point out that there were men wearing them in the background.
Big deal!
Let's see how the show would have went over with Picard wearing a short sleeved cheerleader dress.
It would have lasted one season. Maybe.

I never watched Next Generation until it was in re-runs for the reason of the condescension of the women, 25 years after the Original condescension.

 

[Warped9]

Women are still objectified today albeit perhaps in different ways. That said the inappropriateness of costuming has never stopped my enjoyment of a show in itself.

Candidly I found some of the women’s hairstyles in TOS weirder than what outfit they were wearing.

 

[Armus]

Everyone was quit to point out that there were men wearing them in the background.
Big deal!
Let's see how the show would have went over with Picard wearing a short sleeved cheerleader dress.
It would have lasted one season. Maybe.

Maybe he could have pulled it off for a few episodes.

 

[Henoch]

Maybe he could have pulled it off for a few episodes.

No. Wouldn't make it through the first one.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Candidly I found some of the women’s hairstyles in TOS weirder than what outfit they were wearing.

Yeah, beehives never really came back, did they?

 

[Nakita Akita]

Maybe he could have pulled it off for a few episodes.

I like it!
Maybe a little shorter, with Ruffled undies.
Certainly someone that instills confidence.

 

[cooleddie74]

So that's why he got to run that Sexy Cakes bakery.

 

[Maurice]

Grace most definitely co-created her outfit, referencing Mary Quant, Jean Shrimpton and Twiggy. Nichelle insisted on a uniform skirt for her scenes in ST III.

I know Andrea Weaver, who was the women's wardrobe person on TOS and worked with Theiss up until Harold and Maude. I can ask her if she knows anything about this.

 

[jaime]

Imagine being 9-11 years old girl and noticing and thinking just as I did in the Original Post of this thread?( the show was in re-run)
Imagine thinking, 'cool, this show is going to have women, flying in space ships, shooting evil aliens, defending the planets!'
Then sitting and watching grown women wearing dresses like I had when I was three.
I suppose possibly they didn't have the Ruffles undies like I wore when I was three.
Then to see that the do pretty much nothing other than serve the men, and act sexy.

I detested the show when I watched it at age 9-11.
I watched a few episodes of Mext Generation, and, pretty much the same thing. Troi and Security Cheif Yar wearing miniskirt, short sleeve cheerleader dresses.
Everyone was quit to point out that there were men wearing them in the background.
Big deal!
Let's see how the show would have went over with Picard wearing a short sleeved cheerleader dress.
It would have lasted one season. Maybe.

I never watched Next Generation until it was in re-runs for the reason of the condescension of the women, 25 years after the Original condescension.

Yar in the slant was also background. In fact, even though I know it’s there, and had a crush on her when I was about 8, I still haven’t actually noticed it when I watch Farpoint. Troi switches to trouser suit thing straight after the pilot, and the worse you can accuse that of is being too tight and a flash of collarbone. I don’t think TNG is at all in the same areas as TOS when it comes to costuming.

Another thread had a clip of TOS space hippies....dude in bad wig is wearing thigh highs. I think at this point, we should just establish that clothing is Trek is (a) revealing or tight most of the time, Male or female, and (b) fucking weird.

 

[Commishsleer]

I know Andrea Weaver, who was the women's wardrobe person on TOS and worked with Theiss up until Harold and Maude. I can ask her if she knows anything about this.

While yo're there can you ask if the dress and undies were separates?

Yar in the slant was also background. In fact, even though I know it’s there, and had a crush on her when I was about 8, I still haven’t actually noticed it when I watch Farpoint. Troi switches to trouser suit thing straight after the pilot, and the worse you can accuse that of is being too tight and a flash of collarbone. I don’t think TNG is at all in the same areas as TOS when it comes to costuming.

Troi has a lot of boobage showing with the skin-tight pantsuit.
And the camera is trained on her boobage (Season 1).
The only time she didn't have her breasts on display when she was wearing a skant which was as short as a TOS female uniform.
And Season 1 TNG had a lot of extras wearing the short skant.

 

[jaime]

While yo're there can you ask if the dress and undies were separates?


Troi has a lot of boobage showing with the skin-tight pantsuit.
And the camera is trained on her boobage (Season 1).
The only time she didn't have her breasts on display when she was wearing a skant which was as short as a TOS female uniform.
And Season 1 TNG had a lot of extras wearing the short skant.

Boobs are inevitable. As to the camera being trained on them...well. Maybe. I doubt it, as I suspects sometimes eyes may be drawn to something in shot, but it’s not like we just get a chin moving at the top of her frame in dialogue while her breasts boob boobily front and centre.

 

[Forbin]

Only because it's a point of interest in this conversation, I noticed this when Spock helped Uhura up after a bridge-rocking:

I can't recall the episode, I'm afraid.

 

[UssGlenn]

I thought the objectification of women is probably what kept the show on the air.
Possibly all of them to some extent.
Although, I have never seen the one with Scott Bakula. (At all, zero)

Enterprise is arguably the worst of the bunch. 2 words "Decontamination gel".

 

[Nakita Akita]

Boobs are inevitable. As to the camera being trained on them...well. Maybe. I doubt it, as I suspects sometimes eyes may be drawn to something in shot, but it’s not like we just get a chin moving at the top of her frame in dialogue while her breasts boob boobily front and centre.

Well, boobs might be inevitable but bare cleavage showing is not.
Why did Picard and Riker and well, everyone else on the ship have high neck or mock turtle neck tops except for Troi?
Where is Riker's deep V-neck cleavage baring uniform?

 

[Nakita Akita]

Only because it's a point of interest in this conversation, I noticed this when Spock helped Uhura up after a bridge-rocking:

I can't recall the episode, I'm afraid.

It may or may not be a one piece top.
But it certainly isn't like the ice skating outfits.

 

[cooleddie74]

Only because it's a point of interest in this conversation, I noticed this when Spock helped Uhura up after a bridge-rocking:

I can't recall the episode, I'm afraid.

"Tomorrow Is Yesterday."

 

[Kor]

Enterprise is arguably the worst of the bunch. 2 words "Decontamination gel".

Yeah, that never made any sense, since the characters were still partially clothed. For true decontamination, all articles of clothing, both outer and inner, should be completely removed and put into a separate sterilization process. And the decontamination of hair, skin, etc. should have been an automated process that drenched the person from head to toe. The way the decon process was depicted in ENT, there was a huge risk of missing a spot with that gel, and having residual contamination from the undergarments.

Kor