Did the events in this show really happen (and in the same way as we have seen them) or was it just a holodeck fantasy?
Based on that the last episode revealed that the events in Enterprise only happened on the holodeck
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
- Start date
It did occur to me that one could interpret Enterprise as Riker's holodeck fantasy.
But it's referenced repeatedly in Star Trek Beyond and Discovery, making it as valid as any other part of the franchise.
Imagine if Deep Space 9 did the ending Ira Behr spoke of, where the whole thing was the work of Benny Russel...
But it's referenced repeatedly in Star Trek Beyond and Discovery, making it as valid as any other part of the franchise.
Imagine if Deep Space 9 did the ending Ira Behr spoke of, where the whole thing was the work of Benny Russel...
Have you noticed the Enterprise D looks kind of fake compared to how it looked on TNG and Riker and Troi are more older looking than they should. This story makes no sense connected to The Pegasus episode. What you watching is Riker from the Kelvinverse Enterprise-D looking back at the history of the first Enterprise because while he is also dealing with their Admiral Pressman it's just not exactly happening the same way we saw it in the Prime universe. Also their was no NX-O1 Enterprise in the prime universe. That's why it's not mentioned in any of the other shows. The Temporal Cold War happened in the Kelvinverse creating a changed past where they got a NX-O1 Enterprise in it. It's unknown what Archer and his crew were like in the Prime Universe.
Jason
Jason
Yeah, most of the events may have happened in a similar way and characters from Enterprise may really have existed. But we can't be sure if things really happened like the show portrayed them...
No. First of all, the Kelvin universe didn’t exist at the time this episode was made. Second, the episode does not imply that Riker and Troi inhabit some other alternate universe. The events of the episode are supposed to take place during the events of “The Pegasus” whether Riker and Troi look older and fatter than they’re supposed to, or not.
Having the episode take place when it does makes no sense, true. But sense had very little to do with the production of this ep.
In the Kelvin Timeline, Archer is referenced alongside his dog, as are the Xindi and the MACOs.
In the Prime Timeline, DS9 made mention of a 22nd Eugenics Wars in the episode Doctor Bashir, I Presume, and although that was believed to be a production error at the time, the whole Augments arc in S4 of ENT could be seen as a way of retconning that.
Then there’s the screen caps on the USS Defiant (which is supposed to be from the Prime Universe) from the Mirror Universe episodes, which further confirm that at the very least Archer and Sato existed according to their respective bios, as did a “Vulcan science officer,” a “dangerous mission to the Delphic Expanse,” a warp 5 ship called the NX-01 and its first couple of missions, and that the Vulcans held back Earth’s warp program (and Archer’s personal grudge regarding that). And at least one of the planets named after Archer does appear in TNG (Archer IV).
Then there is the reference in Voyager that the Alpha Quadrant was unstable in the 22nd century (which is compatible with the piracy that space boomers & earth cargo ships dealt with, the Coridan civil war, conflicts the Andorians had with the Vulcans and the Tellarites, and the efforts made by the Romulans to keep all species divided). And in TWOK, there is a passing reference of there being some sort of stability and peaceful for about a century – starting right around the time when Archer becomes the President of the Federation, the mid-2180s.
I know Discovery namedrops Archer a couple of times. However, that series has completely disregarded both the Klingon ridge arc in ENT S4 ( I don’t think the way the Klingons are in Discovery was what anyone thought of when they heard “cranial reconstruction,” although there's technically no rule against it), and when the Klingons had an interest in time travel, which was evident in the series premiere of Enterprise, Broken Bow (Discovery made it sound like that was a recent thing). So, I don’t know if Discovery should count.
So, overall I think its fair to say that Enterprise does exist somewhat in the Prime Universe, although discretion does have to be used. The Temporal Cold War is never actually mentioned anywhere else. We also never see the external design of the NX-01 in TATV, and therefore we don’t know if they were using the same NX-01, an NX refit, or if the NX-01 was a completely different design. I haven’t forgotten the criticisms of how the ship design of the NX-01 looked more advanced than the ships that came after it. We just assume that the ship design is the same in the series finale.
The only thing really missing is Kirk’s acknowledgement that Archer was a childhood hero of his, as was advertised when the show first started.
In the Prime Timeline, DS9 made mention of a 22nd Eugenics Wars in the episode Doctor Bashir, I Presume, and although that was believed to be a production error at the time, the whole Augments arc in S4 of ENT could be seen as a way of retconning that.
Then there’s the screen caps on the USS Defiant (which is supposed to be from the Prime Universe) from the Mirror Universe episodes, which further confirm that at the very least Archer and Sato existed according to their respective bios, as did a “Vulcan science officer,” a “dangerous mission to the Delphic Expanse,” a warp 5 ship called the NX-01 and its first couple of missions, and that the Vulcans held back Earth’s warp program (and Archer’s personal grudge regarding that). And at least one of the planets named after Archer does appear in TNG (Archer IV).
Then there is the reference in Voyager that the Alpha Quadrant was unstable in the 22nd century (which is compatible with the piracy that space boomers & earth cargo ships dealt with, the Coridan civil war, conflicts the Andorians had with the Vulcans and the Tellarites, and the efforts made by the Romulans to keep all species divided). And in TWOK, there is a passing reference of there being some sort of stability and peaceful for about a century – starting right around the time when Archer becomes the President of the Federation, the mid-2180s.
I know Discovery namedrops Archer a couple of times. However, that series has completely disregarded both the Klingon ridge arc in ENT S4 ( I don’t think the way the Klingons are in Discovery was what anyone thought of when they heard “cranial reconstruction,” although there's technically no rule against it), and when the Klingons had an interest in time travel, which was evident in the series premiere of Enterprise, Broken Bow (Discovery made it sound like that was a recent thing). So, I don’t know if Discovery should count.
So, overall I think its fair to say that Enterprise does exist somewhat in the Prime Universe, although discretion does have to be used. The Temporal Cold War is never actually mentioned anywhere else. We also never see the external design of the NX-01 in TATV, and therefore we don’t know if they were using the same NX-01, an NX refit, or if the NX-01 was a completely different design. I haven’t forgotten the criticisms of how the ship design of the NX-01 looked more advanced than the ships that came after it. We just assume that the ship design is the same in the series finale.
The only thing really missing is Kirk’s acknowledgement that Archer was a childhood hero of his, as was advertised when the show first started.
Why not? It's not like it's history. It's fiction.
I meant some events may not exactly happened like we saw it, while some others did.
I think it may perhaps be a good explanation for some canon differences between this show and what we heard about the past in the earlier shows, if we just saw Riker's holodeck adventures.
But i can understand that maybe not many fans like watching the show from this perspective. Although it doesn't diminish my pleasure in watching the show at all.
That’s what I’m pretty much getting at as well. Some of the Enterprise NX-01 missions are historically fact (Broken Bow, Fight or Flight, The Andorian Incident, Shadows of P’Jem, Cease Fire, Minefield, First Flight, the Xindi Arc, Home, the Kir’Shara Arc, the Augments arc, the Terra Prime arc), while other missions are just urban legends (Ferengi, Borg), or possibly obscured by Section 31 (Temporal Cold War, Klingon Augment virus).
Its also entirely possible that some members of Starfleet in both the 23rd and 24th centuries never believed that Trip died like the holodeck suggests.
That's not how it works.
Why not? The events of First Contact are essentially urban legend in Enterprise, and their encounter with the Borg would just add to it. Plus, they were all knocked out when the Ferengi visited. And its known how secretive Section 31 is. They were even involved in one of those events, so they’re likely to declare a few Enterpise NX-01 missions classified.
It’s either that or the events of First Contact created a new timeline, leading to an older and fatter Riker and Troi by the time of the episode The Pegasus.
What we see on screen is what happened (until it isn’t)
We still could have seen a holodeck program doctored by Barclay to mess with Riker's head. Holodeck programs are fantasy, not reality. Riker kissed our beloved T'Pol. Ick ick ick. 
NOT REAL. Riker's fantasy.
NOT REAL. Riker's fantasy.
Riker kissed our beloved T'Pol. Ick ick ick.
Come on. It's not like he used tongue and grabbed her ass!
I thought it was kind of sweet.
I'm so happy for you.
Come on. It's not like he used tongue and grabbed her ass!
I thought it was kind of sweet.
But for me... my reaction colored, perhaps, by the travesty of this waste-of-an-hour with TNG characters hogging all the airtime of the, hello, ENT finale, as Riker romped through his little fantasy world and played dress-up and magically had our people suddenly having counselor sessions with-- Chef?-- Chef?? excuse me???-- while acting completely out of character whining about seat assignments which were clearly a more important issue than the dead guy they were memorializing, who, let's face it, committed suicide because no Trip Tucker of mine would be such a friggin moron about some dopey random bumpy-foreheaded aliens of the week, after he was basically MacGyver the week before-- sorry, six years before, so I guess all his brain cells died in the interim, but maybe that was because apparently nobody on this ship ever earned a promotion even after saving the universe from the Sphere-Builders and there was a Romulan War too if I recall correctly, plus who knows the fallout from allegedly breaking up with T'Pol about five minutes after mourning together over baby Elizabeth and practically vowing to try to have a baby, together this time, which made the alleged breakup make absobleepinglutely zero sense considering the 2-season buildup and being bonded and stuff and don't get me started about that, but now that I mention it, they belonged together no matter what nonsense they were blabbering about in that shuttlecraft with T'Pol asking if Trip missed her which she would never ask anyway because she's a Vulcan but whoever slapped together this fake holodeck fantasy apparently didn't do his homework about well anybody concerned, so don't get me started about that, so to see dress-up Riker TOUCH MY T'POL was just
.
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