Spoilers Picard Prequel "Children of Mars"

[Oniramen]

Not to mention that even if the Federation has thousands of ships, they're probably busy doing stuff. Shipping, protection, patrol, research, etc. You don't just grind your economy to a halt because you need a bunch of them. If there's time to prepare, it's better to fit a fleet of ships for it than to call out to all your ships to drop what they're doing.

 

[Longinus]

Isn't whole Hobus thing non-canon anyway? It is not mentioned in the film, right? So it can be just the star in the Romulan system?

Not that I really think that perfectly syncing with the reboot films really matters, they're practically their own continuity (and one which seems to be dead anyway) and never made much sense as a mere alternate timeline. The producers need to make decisions that best support the story they want to tell in Picard, and the prime continuity as a whole.

 

[BillJ]

The producers need to make decisions that best support the story they want to tell in Picard, and the prime continuity as a whole.

it happens in the Prime continuity.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Isn't whole Hobus thing non-canon anyway? It is not mentioned in the film, right? So it can be just the star in the Romulan system?

Not that I really think that perfectly syncing with the reboot films really matters, they're practically their own continuity (and one which seems to be dead anyway) and never made much sense as a mere alternate timeline. The producers need to make decisions that best support the story they want to tell in Picard, and the prime continuity as a whole.

This is the scene from the movie:

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It was heavily modified in post-production, with JJ tinkering with it until 2 weeks before the premiere to make it less of a lecture.

 

[Longinus]

it happens in the Prime continuity.

What does?

 

[BillJ]

What does?

The Hobus supernova.

 

[Longinus]

The Hobus supernova.

There's no 'Hobus supernova' there is just a supernova that destroys Romulus. And trying to make sense of stellar events based on JJ Abrams film is like trying to make sense of dinosaur behaviour based on Flintstones.

Anyway, as we see from the clip, the events cannot unfold as visually described, they might kinda unfold like Spock narrates. If the explosion had already happened before Spock begins his mission, supernova destroying Romulus could not come as surprise, he would know perfectly when the explosion reaches the planet. It only makes any sense if the 'unthinkable' is the nova happening earlier than Spock predicted and that nova is in the Romulan system.

And none of this really matters. That is now an old film from a dead branch of the franchise, and it can be ignored if needed, especially if what is ignored is exact details of what some hazy flashback sequence and quick recap exposition means.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I was under the impression that it never got approved. If it had, why send Spock to do it? Why send just one ship?

Trek 2009 gave me the distinct impression that Spock, though aided and abetted, did not get the Red Matter through legal means.

Interesting point, given the new backstory being introduced by ST Picard. Maybe Spock went in knowing it was a one-way mission: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

Ironically, because of this he ended up saving the Enterprise from Khan a second time!

 

[cooleddie74]

Spock knew the risks. He probably knew there was a good chance that even if he succeeded in saving Romulus that his proximity to the Hobus supernova shockwave might destroy the Jellyfish and kill him. Failing likely meant the same. So he might have seen it as a one-way trip but did so because he felt he owed the Romulans after decades of supporting Reunification and 19 years of living on Romulus.

Either way he was a hero for what he did.

 

[F. King Daniel]

And none of this really matters. That is now an old film from a dead branch of the franchise, and it can be ignored if needed, especially if what is ignored is exact details of what some hazy flashback sequence and quick recap exposition means.

Nothing is sacred to these people, they'll radically change anything that suits them whether it's ten seconds in one episode or reboot the Klingons or the design of the U.S.S. Enterprise itself.

That said, Romulan refugees are a huge part of Picard so the supernova did happen in some form. The recent Countdown comics again imply something covering several sectors, since they centre on a planet in a system at the edge of the "blast radius" ... but there being a blast radius invalidates Spock saying it threatened to destroy the whole galaxy in the movie.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

... but there being a blast radius invalidates Spock saying it threatened to destroy the whole galaxy in the movie.

What can I say? The guy has a penchant for hyperbole....

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/34f748ed-f998-4b4d-b5b9-40d11a881e38

 

[BillJ]

... but there being a blast radius invalidates Spock saying it threatened to destroy the whole galaxy in the movie.

Spock was being dramatic.

 

[Longinus]

Nothing is sacred to these people, they'll radically change anything that suits them whether it's ten seconds in one episode or reboot the Klingons or the design of the U.S.S. Enterprise itself.

That said, Romulan refugees are a huge part of Picard so the supernova did happen in some form. The recent Countdown comics again imply something covering several sectors, since they centre on a planet in a system at the edge of the "blast radius" ... but there being a blast radius invalidates Spock saying it threatened to destroy the whole galaxy in the movie.

'Whole galaxy' was of course complete bollocks. We can just interpret it meaning political and economical ramifications destabilising the galaxy (and of course even then only the small corner which our friends inhabit.) And a normal supernova would absolutely threaten several sectors. Safe distance from one is something like 50 to 100 LY, so if we assume it is the Romulan star which exploded, it would most likely threaten all of their oldest colonies. It would probably even threaten some Federation and Klingon worlds, though of course farther you are less sever the effects are and more time you'll have to take precautions.

 

[DaveyNY]

Thank goodness Spock spent all those years with Kirk, otherwise we'd have nothing to fall back on to explain these discrepancies.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Whole galaxy' was of course complete bollocks.

From co-writer Alex Kurtzman, whose first season of Discovery threatened to destroy the entire multiverse? And in season 2 every inhabited world in the galaxy? You may not want the stakes to be so ridiculously over the top, but I'm pretty sure they love it.

Going by the Star Trek Star Charts and Stellar Cartography location of Hobus and Romulus, this is the damage done when Spock stopped it:

 

[BillJ]

From co-writer Alex Kurtzman, whose first season of Discovery threatened to destroy the entire multiverse? And in season 2 every inhabited world in the galaxy? You may not want the stakes to be so ridiculously over the top, but I'm pretty sure they love it.

Unfortunately, they don't seem to realize it becomes silly after a while.

 

[DaveyNY]

I wonder if Star Fleet considered evacuating the outposts and starbase along those coordinates?

 

[Longinus]

From co-writer Alex Kurtzman, whose first season of Discovery threatened to destroy the entire multiverse? And in season 2 every inhabited world in the galaxy? You may not want the stakes to be so ridiculously over the top, but I'm pretty sure they love it.

Yes, those were bollocks too.

Going by the Star Trek Star Charts and Stellar Cartography location of Hobus and Romulus, this is the damage done when Spock stopped it:

Unless there it is mentioned in the first episode of Picard and I'm not aware that, 'Hobus' is fully a non-canon concept and I hope people would stop repeating it like it meant something.

Furthermore, the idea that you could somehow stop an omnidirectional blast from one point on its edge is mindbreakingly stupid. And if that blast was somehow superluminal (which is in itself stupid) it would somehow manage to be even stupider. At best the red matter could in such an instance create a 'safe bubble' as the black hole would absorb part of the incoming matter and energy.

 

[Timo]

Yes, it makes no sense for Spock to stop (or reverse, or whatever) something that big by dropping a vial into it at Romulus.

We see the speed at which the Red Matter eats away at the shining wavefront, just like we see the speed at which the wavefront hit Romulus. And with the Red Matter effect, we can compare directly to the motion of the Jellyfish, seen delivering the vial and spinning at a supposedly steady rate while at it.

That the effect would negate a wavefront 2 AU across is within the limits of plausible. If the wavefront is 25 ly across, though... No way.

Nevertheless, one has to wonder what was supposed to happen in the ideal case. Letting the star blow and then negating the wavefront would save planets in the "Hobus scenario". It would help little in the more realistic "Homesun scenario", though. Perhaps Red Matter had several beneficial qualities, and Spock's original plan was to use it to stabilize the star before it blew? Or to turn it into a giant black hole, giving Romulus a few days to evacuate rather than a few minutes?

In any case, all it takes to blow the ideal model out of water is a single innocent utterance of "Hobus" in PIC. I sincerely hope it never happens.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DaveyNY]

Yeah, the Hobus Star is from the comic, not the movie.

I assumed that the Red Matter interacted with the wave-front essentially absorbing it completely.
(front to back & side to side)
Kinda like a Black-hole but a non-sustaining one, in that once the waves energy was absorbed both would dissipate and cancel each other out.