Spoilers Picard Prequel "Children of Mars"
- Thread starter mattman8907
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Problem being the scale of this particular crisis. It probably pushes Federation resources to the brink.
Which could be seen as a Conservative talking point from the show. About how America is often trying to carry the load alone.
Well, a "Hobus supernova" would have to be a big problem. If it originates in this (AFAIK never-mentioned) Hobus star rather than at the Romulan homesun, the wavefront of destruction then proceeds in every direction from there. By the time it reaches Romulus, it will also have reached all the stars in all the other directions that are as close to it as Romulus or closer - and the number of those will only keep on increasing as the wave moves on. This regardless of whether the wave moves STL or FTL.
Do we learn whether the wave was STL or FTL? Anything about the timetable of events? Has the explosion already happened by the time of "Children of Mars" or is it merely predicted? Does anybody mention Hobus?
Timo Saloniemi
It would have to be FTL. Because otherwise it would take years for it to have moved from Hobus to other star systems.
But would that be a problem? Say it takes five years. That gives the UFP enough time to build ships as a response to the crisis - and puts all stars within a bubble ten lightyears across in jeopardy. If it takes just days, there's no point in building evacuation ships. OTOH, if it does take days, rather than hours, then Spock is an idiot in launching way too late in a ship that will never make it...
Is there a Hobus? Is there a known timetable?
...Is there a transcript? The Memory Alpha page has most of the goods already, but the omission of a mention of Hobus there might be just that...
Timo Saloniemi
I think we see Hobus explode in the 2009 movie, as Spock was en route. So they knew there was an issue with it, but I don't think they had a specific knowledge of when it was going to go. Which probably makes it FTL since it destroys Romulus later in the sequence.
Of course this could all be moot, as my memory isn't quite what it used to be.
The timeline of what is seen in Movie XI is unclear at best. There's a visual that shows the camera riding all the way from planet Romulus through a field of rocks to a star that goes kaboom and hits that field of rocks. Then there's another visual showing the kaboom wave hitting Romulus. Visually, then, it's the homestar that blows. But we never learn when exactly the star is lost (the visual is shown before all the other bits of the mind meld, just like the star blowing is mentioned in dialogue before all the other events, but this may be mere dramatic convention to introduce the main issue, out of schedule) - only that Romulus itself is lost while Spock is en route.
"No specific knowledge" would cast Spock in the best possible light. If he failed even when all the facts were known, he would be counting on luck at best, and guilty of criminal illogic at worst. But we don't even learn about the degree of knowledge...
Odd that "Children of Mars" doesn't shed more light on this. But some episode or another of PIC probably will. Perhaps the writers themselves want to keep it maximally vague - but they will fail. Oh, will they fail...
Timo Saloniemi
"No specific knowledge" would cast Spock in the best possible light. If he failed even when all the facts were known, he would be counting on luck at best, and guilty of criminal illogic at worst. But we don't even learn about the degree of knowledge...
Odd that "Children of Mars" doesn't shed more light on this. But some episode or another of PIC probably will. Perhaps the writers themselves want to keep it maximally vague - but they will fail. Oh, will they fail...
Timo Saloniemi
You mean for example four years they have time to evacuate? There is absolutely no plot requirement for this to be some sort of cringy superluminal nova, a perfectly normal supernova works just fine.
I don't really see why the supernova couldn't move at STL. It's a bit suspect that the star exploded with no warning, but that can also be explained by a couple lines of dialogue. Weapon experiments conducted by the RSE or whatever, or maybe a quantum filament crossing paths with the star. There's a lot of pseudosciencey explanations for things in Trek anyways.
So Hobus explodes unexpectedly is the big worldbuilding conceit, but after that the shockwave travels at light speed, not FTL. This gives a ballpark of 5ish years for the RSE and Federation to mobilize a response.
So Hobus explodes unexpectedly is the big worldbuilding conceit, but after that the shockwave travels at light speed, not FTL. This gives a ballpark of 5ish years for the RSE and Federation to mobilize a response.
Certainly a STL wave would best match the visuals of it hitting Romulus. But a STL wave emanating from the Romulan homesun and taking mere minutes to hit the planet is the best match for a number of other things, such as Spock being able to countermand the kaboom in the first place (he only does it at Romulus, so how would it help the rest of the galaxy, unless Romulus was the very source?).
An advance warning of four years in this scenario would have to come from a prediction, not an observation. Which then explains why evacuation might not happen. Predictions might not be believed by all. And Spock's Plan B, involving Red Matter, might not get approval until it was way too late.
Timo Saloniemi
An advance warning of four years in this scenario would have to come from a prediction, not an observation. Which then explains why evacuation might not happen. Predictions might not be believed by all. And Spock's Plan B, involving Red Matter, might not get approval until it was way too late.
Timo Saloniemi
I liked ST2009 quite a bit in many aspects; but I've always thought the idea of ANOTHER STAR exploding and somehow creating an 'FTL force/wave' that also destroys Romulus (or the Star of the Romulan system which then destroys Romulus) on of the most ridiculous and stupid ideas (along with Spock being able to see the destruction of Vulcan with his naked eye from the planet Delta Vega - which per TOS is near the edge of the Milky Way galaxy); and thus I doubt Picard will delve into the causes or specifics of what it was/what caused it to any degree.
The plot points for Picard in all this which I think will be covered:
- While a Star Fleet Admiral Picard fought for and got the Federation Council (or maybe just Star Fleet) to ultimately agree to build and send 10,000 ships to evacuate Romulus.
- As that project was proceeding the 'Synths' attacked Mars; and as a result the Federation/Star Fleet abandoned/failed to follow through on said agreement and that had a lot of fallout; and (for reasons they may or may not go into in a bit more depth during the series) Picard ultimately resigns from Star Fleet and retires to his Vineyard in France.
- As time goes on, he's haunted by this last failures; and in re-accessing his life in retirement, other things he sees as failures; and as a result, can find to real peace.
- Them Danj shows up, stuff starts to happen, and Picard sees something going on that he feels he has to be a part of; to help atone for what he sees as his failures in life; and to regain some personal peace and be able to ultimately live with himself.
So, yeah, in the end, the specifics of what caused the Hobus star to do whatever it did to ultimately cause the destruction of Romulus is unimportant to the overall story above. It's a event that happened.
Well, we apparently still are left hanging on whether there was any "Hobus" to begin with... The rest may or may not be clarified at some point.
Spock seeing the loss of Vulcan I always attributed to a "disturbance in the Force" type deal, much as in "Immunity Syndrome". Regardless of distances, the cloudy skies of Delta Vega would hide the event anyway, in all probability; Nero must have counted on Spock witnessing it by some other means.
Timo Saloniemi
Spock seeing the loss of Vulcan I always attributed to a "disturbance in the Force" type deal, much as in "Immunity Syndrome". Regardless of distances, the cloudy skies of Delta Vega would hide the event anyway, in all probability; Nero must have counted on Spock witnessing it by some other means.
Timo Saloniemi
I was under the impression that it never got approved. If it had, why send Spock to do it? Why send just one ship?
Trek 2009 gave me the distinct impression that Spock, though aided and abetted, did not get the Red Matter through legal means.
There have been lots of decisions to do goofy fantasy stuff in Trek movies, but the decisions surrounding this supernova and Delta Vega in that movie put in relief how even small creative conceits can have far-reaching consequences in a sandbox-world as big as that of Trek.
On the other hand, this supernova business might end up a catalyst for some strong stories in the Picard series, so I'm kinda glass-half-full about it
In the script (Where admittedly things are quite different), it's a suicide mission and Spock accepts it because of his advanced age and commitment to Romulus.
Not unlike all the elderly engineers who volunteered to help at Fukushima during that disaster.
Well, lets go into "Real" physics.. for abit.
A normal supernove means that a gamma ray burst will travel at lightspeed. any physical stuff will be considerably slower than light, and would have to be very close to affect another system.. even then it would be almost inconsequental.
The problem is the Gamma ray burst.. within a certain radius, I think its 5 light years.. if your within 5 light years.. your screwed.. as in death of all life on said planet (NOT blowing it up) just killing all life.. maybe a chance of life if your on the "Dark" oppisite side of the hit..
Now.. if its a normal supernove .. then making sometype of shielding system for the planet would be better than trying to evacuate Billions..
So, the Hobus would have to be sometype of screwed up bomb and goes FTL with a powerfull energy wave to destroy a planet.. maybe set off the Romulas sun to explode maybe..
Anyways.. we'll see..
A normal supernove means that a gamma ray burst will travel at lightspeed. any physical stuff will be considerably slower than light, and would have to be very close to affect another system.. even then it would be almost inconsequental.
The problem is the Gamma ray burst.. within a certain radius, I think its 5 light years.. if your within 5 light years.. your screwed.. as in death of all life on said planet (NOT blowing it up) just killing all life.. maybe a chance of life if your on the "Dark" oppisite side of the hit..
Now.. if its a normal supernove .. then making sometype of shielding system for the planet would be better than trying to evacuate Billions..
So, the Hobus would have to be sometype of screwed up bomb and goes FTL with a powerfull energy wave to destroy a planet.. maybe set off the Romulas sun to explode maybe..
Anyways.. we'll see..
Well, Starfleet has never had a good representation on screen of how big it actually is. Takes away from the drama.
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