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Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5

So Lena just stole another woman's agency over her own body. On a liberal-slanted show.

Yeah. She's not evil.

Yes--what a moral, upstanding heroine she turned out to be...or not. That said, any 11th hour attempts for Lena to "be good"--either through Eve struggling to maintain her own identity and/or performs some self-sacrificing act, or try to stop Rojas from whatever angle she's playing, will be forced, as the one constant for the Lena character since her introduction has been a series of immoral, possibly illegal acts. That is not a personality outlier, but the heart of who she is. Only now, she's finally living up to her eugenics interests (which she argued in favor of as humanity's defense against aliens during season 4), only now, she's trying to remove their tendency to lie (and other undesired traits).

She had no problem experimenting on people in the past, and now she's gone all-out on Eve with not a particle of regret. That was a calculated effort, not some spur of the moment action. That's Lena being...Lena.
 
Obviously they are pushing her toward "evil," and that disappoints me, because I don't think it's the right direction to take her character. I'm hoping that it will be what we both agreed we wanted to see, a storyline where she goes dark for a time and then redeems herself -- as you put it, where she hits rock bottom before recognizing her need to change. I thought we were already in agreement that she is not intrinsically "evil" by blood or something stupid like that, just that she's succumbing to a fatal character flaw that she needs to be rescued from.

I was just hoping she wouldn't go this dark this quickly. She's jumped so immediately to blatant supervillainy that I'm surprised she hasn't started cackling madly and petting an angora cat. It's too radical and abrupt a downfall, and it feels out of character. They should've started with some more subtle moral compromise, shown her plausible descent down a slippery slope, instead of jumping right to "I will save humanity by destroying free will!"
Oh, don't get me wrong; I just as upset about it as you are. But for me, it felt like such a bizarre creative choice. Hence my snark.

First Lena references Hippocrates, invoking doctors and/or the medical field. Later she has that big speech about "choice." And finally, as she's Hope-wiping Eve, there's an iconic feminist anthem about sexual liberation playing in the background. I just sat there staring at my TV with :wtf: :wtf: face.

Now I'm sure Lena will inevitably see the light and all that about the importance of a free will. And I suppose one could argue that it fits within the pretext of the show. None the less, I thought it was a really odd way to go. Then again, I'm not a woman. :shrug:

Though I will concede that, between the size of the cast and all the lingering plot threads, the show does have a lot to get done (certainly more than any of the others) before COIE. So I suppose that could condone any conceptual misfires.
 
And finally, as she's Hope-wiping Eve, there's an iconic feminist anthem about sexual liberation playing in the background.

Really? Wow, that's disturbing. I didn't notice the song, nor would I probably have recognized it if I had. What was it?


Though I will concede that, between the size of the cast and all the lingering plot threads, the show does have a lot to get done (certainly more than any of the others) before COIE.

More than the others? I don't know. It seems that both Arrow's final season and Flash's first half-season are both going to revolve directly around setting up the Crisis, while Supergirl's involvement seems peripheral, with the Monitor apparently just being an excuse to free Ma'alefa'ak. The Arrowverse Wiki actually lists LaMonica Garrett as a regular on The Flash this season.
 
Oh, that's right. Come to think of it, I did recognize the incongruously serious cover of "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" -- I just never would've imagined it's gained a reputation as "an iconic feminist anthem," since back in the day I had the impression that the song and its performer weren't taken very seriously.
 
So Lena just stole another woman's agency over her own body. On a liberal-slanted show.

Yeah. She's not evil.
Nosedive complete.

So what's left? Batwoman and maybe the Legends? Show and a half left in the Arrowverse, and good that there's Black Lightning.
 
Yeah Hope is def going to become a problem in the future
If I remember right, wasn't there a comic book story where Hope was an ersatz superhero made by Lex in one of his elaborate schemes to discredit Superman?

Lena did the artificial superhero thing last year, but now that Hope has been embodied, maybe there's something to that.
 
Well, I finally managed to find some time to watch episode 2 and ... alas, I yawned a lot, not because I was tired after a tirring and stressful day but because of the episode and particularly some minor storylines: - J'onn J'onzz's conflict with his brother (sorry but I'm already tired of his conflict with his brother -> in s3, it was his father and his difficulties to communicate with him and now, that!) ; - light issues between couples Nia/Brainiac and Alex/Kelly mainly due to a lack of communication. By the way, I begin to like Kelly, who is more than just Alex new love: she has a job, she has a personality and we see her implementing them both daily and I must admit quite effectively, while her brother, James, rather gave me the impression of brewing air in Catco, preferring to play the twirling Guardian. In short, she really brings a little more to the show than just being Alex's girlfirend and it is not nothing On the other hand, what did they do to Alex character?! She almost became insignificant, while she is supposed to be the DEO's Director. And of course, to end the list, the sudden passion for our James of the the political arena and nothing less than the senator's seat (hey, sorry to say that but what a lucky duck: he got the Catco's CEO's seat thanks to Cat Grant without showing any predisposition for the job and besides, we never saw him doing the job seriously, prefering acting like a superhero he wasn't and this was subsequently seen with the decline in sales) and now, a possible senator's seat while he never did something exceptional except being in the shadow of being in the shadow of Supergirl/Kara or Superman/Clark as James Olsen then as Guardian. I know that the ridicule never kills anyone but there, I think that we won the cake! :rolleyes:
I add that the message sent by producers/writers could be misinterpreted, like " when you do not know what to do with your life, enter politics!" :whistle:

About Lena's use of nanotechnology on a human subject, it was clearly inapropriate as seeing as she performed nothing less than a kind of lobotomy applied on an isolated part of the brain without the tacit consent of the said subject (contrary to Adam in, s4, who was proposed on several times to quit but stayed and was proud to participate to the experience, knowing perfectly that he could die), but let me remind you that Lena before being a Luthor, is a brilliant scientist who still and always rely on technology to improve the daily life of her fellow human beings?! And sometimes, even with the best intentions in mind, scientists cross the red line or at least brush it... . Plus, I'd add that the fact that Eve, a person without faith or law as long as it can draw her recognition and power, was the said human subject is almost
pleasurable. Do not we say that "Revenge is a dish best served cold"? Here, Lena would do Eve almost service because we all seek to be better than we are in life. :D But I seriously think as many of you that, sooner or later, all Eve 2.0's process will come back like a boomerang endangering her and her friends and maybe even innoncent people. That being said, Hope's storyline is terrifying but so exciting and interesting : Human creates to improve the life of his fellowmen/women but ends to lose the control of his/her inventions because, wanting to do too well, he/she adds to the process the ability to self-management and system improvement. At the end, the "monster" man-made machine takes precedence over man and cause more trouble to its creator than benefits. A concept lifted directly from science fiction, used may times.
Anyway, Eve 2.0 's actions should be the awakening of Lena in the hope that the damage can be reparable. Let's stay positive! :)
 
This episode was basically a huge bore for me. The first episode wasn't bad, but instead of focusing on heroism, they devolved into wasting time on Brainy and Alex's love lives. No wonder the ratings are so low. That's not going to cut it.

What I do find interesting is the reaction to Lena's mind rape/murder of Eve in this thread. I think the posters here are right.

If Eve's mind is gone, Lena murdered her. May not have killed the body, but what's the difference? If it's not a murder, it's a rape of some capacity. She stole Eve's identity.

And it's clear that her plans are to play god with people and take away their free will. That's horrible.
 
To me the Lena story is the only thing working. I have been wanting her or any of the main cast to go down a dark path for awhile now so it isn't just sunshine and rainbows all the time. My prediction is we going to see the show go down a Stepford Wives or Invasion of the Body Snatchers area. I am also thinking we might find out Lena has been brainwashed maybe by Lex or mom. Which could feel like a cheat or turn interesting like Garribodi on Babylon 5. Jason
 
I need to go back and watch the end of this episode. Was Eve's personality destroyed or merely suppressed? Regardless, it is a horrific act, surpassing her murder of that guy last season. I didn't like the direction her character took last season, but unless Lex has taken over Lena's body at this point I really hope the writers don't try to redeem her character.
 
1. Myriad from season one of Supergirl.
2. Hope is taking over/fixing Lena, rebuilding Lena into the woman that Hope thinks that Lena wants to be.
3. Brianiac is going to take one look at Lena, identify the patently obvious caveman AI, trying to take her over, and giggle.
 
I wonder if the writers don't even realize how dark a path Lena is taking. Sometimes writers are like that--they think their characters are good when they are not.
 
I wonder if the writers don't even realize how dark a path Lena is taking. Sometimes writers are like that--they think their characters are good when they are not.

The writers have painted Lena as a immoral woman from the start, with such gems as human exprimentation, a belief in eugenics and other actions even her own ex-boyfriend wanted to investigate. Whether the writers know it or not, these are hard character traits, not someone going off of a path. This is her path, and any attempt to upend that (and no 11th hour "herouc" moment erases a life history) all to end with a "bestest friend forever" moment would simply be another gutted and dumped series opportunity.

Well, it seems that Supergirl new episodes will be aired on Mondays now and not on Sundays anymore, according to Facebook's official page.

https://www.facebook.com/TheCWSupergirl/

It should have never been placed in that slot to go against The Walking Dead in the first place. Monday is the better fit.
 
Well, it seems that Supergirl new episodes will be aired on Mondays now and not on Sundays anymore, according to Facebook's official page.

I believe the above is for streaming. New episodes STREAM on Mondays, but still air on the regular network on Sundays. Supergirl would probably benefit from moving back to Mondays at 8 though. That said, it probably isn't a good pairing with Black Lightning.

But with the ratings what they are, it could use a boost.

The writers have painted Lena as a immoral woman from the start, with such gems as human exprimentation, a belief in eugenics and other actions even her own ex-boyfriend wanted to investigate. Whether the writers know it or not, these are hard character traits, not someone going off of a path. This is her path, and any attempt to upend that (and no 11th hour "herouc" moment erases a life history) all to end with a "bestest friend forever" moment would simply be another gutted and dumped series opportunity.

You're right, but they also portray her as someone who is not a typical Luthor. Someone who does not want to go down the same path, and is not evil. They have her do all you mention, and I agree that her actions could absolutely be evil--but I don't know if the WRITERS feel that way. Maybe that says something about the writers, who have been dropping the ball on this show for awhile now. Frustrating because there are episodes that really get it right.

Lena is an interesting comic book character. I don't know her too well, but she evolved and changed a lot over the years. I don't think she was really all that evil in the comics, but she's also not in my opinion, an all time classic character that shouldn't be messed with like say a Jimmy Olsen or Kara or Lex.

With good writing, I'm ok with turning her evil and the building blocks for that are in your examples. Instead of fighting, she could embrace her Luthor traits, and then let's see what happens.
 
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