Spoilers Supergirl - Season 5

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by detective diaz, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This was an ok start to the season. I wasn't lost at all even having skipped last season, so that was nice. The "super" villain stuff was interesting, and the stuff with Kara and her team was good. Honestly, my big problems are Lena and the newspaper stuff. I thought that Lena would go pure evil, but I didn't think it would be quite so obnoxious. Also,

    Why does supergirl keep taking things from Superman IV: The Quest For Peace?

    First its hiring Jon Cryer, now its the asinine subplot of "Evil/greedy asshole buys the newspaper and turns it into a shitty tabloid". It wasn't a compelling story there, and its more obnoxious here. I see a lot of twitter browsing during Catco scenes in my future...

    Also, how can Jimmy be banned from journalism for life? No compete clauses can't be infinite, there is no way that is legal. I can see him having to wait out his current contract, but there is no way he can legally be banned from an entire industry permanently. From wikipedia:

    Even if the evil woman tried to stop him from getting hired after the no-compete clause was over, at the bare minimum the Daily Planet would almost certainly take him back. It just feels like the writers trying to make him quitting seem more important then it was.

    Still, it was overall an ok episode. Not amazing, but good enough to keep watching, even if I'm probably going to be paying less then perfect attention to the Catco stuff this season.
     
  2. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This was a pretty good premiere, the personal stuff was definitely better than the superhero stuff.
    I was really happy when Lena seemed to forgive Kara after her confession, so I was frustrated by her little villain speech at the end. I'm still holding out hope that they're not having her go completely evil, the first scene after she used the VR contacts at wasn't quite as evil sounding.
    Midnight was underwhelming, but was pretty much just there to give them something to fight and set up Ma'alefa'ak, so it wasn't that much of a problem.
    Rojas is an interesting little complication to the non-superhero stuff. It'll be interesting to see where the conflicts with her go as the season continues. After James and Cat, it is a bit of a change to see the CatCo team get a new boss who isn't a friend.
    I'm curious what role the VR contacts will end up playing in the season's bigger arc, they feel like a Chekhov's Gun that will inevitably go off before the end of the season.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    By the way, it was surprising to actually get a scene set in the Noonan's coffee shop, the first time since season 1, since it was an LA location. Of course it had to be after an in-story acquisition and remodel, since they had to find a Vancouver location to replace the original. Now that they've done that, maybe we'll go back to seeing regular Noonan's scenes again.
     
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  4. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was a little surprised it wasn't a Jitters, but that could just be an Earth One thing. I completely forgot that we had seen Noonan's back in Season 1.
     
  5. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Totally hated all of this.
     
  6. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I did not like the speech at the end either. I felt completely out of character, especially the "Luthors are scorpions" line. This show has established that Lena Luthor is NOT a Luthor. Sure, she is a tough business woman, but she does not subscribe to their morality. She never felt like she was the same as Lex. She went out of her way in past seasons to show that she wanted to do better and redeem the Luthor family name. This speech was like a Lex speech. It was a mustache twirling, "I am an evil Luthor". It does not jive with everything this show has established about her. Hopefully, the show does not make her full evil. I think that would be very disappointing because it would undo a lot of her character development.
     
  7. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, that exactly.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think Lena's just hurt and betrayed and is reacting to that the way her damaging upbringing conditioned her to. And for all that she's tried to be better, the reason she's been so driven is because she's always feared she was just like the rest of her family. That feeling must be especially strong now, after she killed Lex in cold blood. She's probably very guilty about that and retreating from that guilt by hardening her heart like a Luthor and embracing her anger toward Kara.

    I don't think she'll go full evil, but I think Kara's going to have to save her from herself at some point, get her to confront her guilt and work through it and find her way back.
     
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  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Kara has the tech to fix everything and save everyone, in the fortress. Hoarding that tech, is a worse betrayal, than Kara keeping her secret identiity secret.

    Lena is going to milk Kara.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  10. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    We're not talking about the most important question. During the tour of the "World of Krypton" exhibit, there was a brief glimpse of a monkey mannequin on display.

    Beppo the Super-Monkey?
     
  11. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, I missed that. That seems like the kind of background Easter egg they would throw in there.
     
  12. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was pretty underwhelmed by this episode to be honest. It was fine for what it was, but it didn't really feel like a season premier to me. Three major criticisms stood out and they've already been touched upon here.

    1. The suit: I am going to hope that the time it took for the suit to materialize was a one time thing for effect. People could literally die in the time it took for that thing to appear.
    2. Lena's conversion to being "evil" at the end was too silly. It undermines anything we have learned about her character up until now. She should be angry, but accepting Kara's apology was more within her character--unless she were evil all along.
    3. The non-compete clause was idiotic. Nobody had time to sign any new contracts--and old contracts should at least be contestable given that CatCo has switched ownership and shifted its business model.
     
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  13. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Where are you getting that from? She conducts experiments on humans, has a wealth of other secret experiments that are you know...secret because its all unethical/illegal (like that which James wanted to investigate) and is a cutthroat. This is the same woman who believed mankind needed enhanced protection from alien threats (and in series/showrunner ideology, that's the worst idea anyone could think of). She is a Luthor, and the irony is that as much as she's said she's not like the rest of her clan, she constantly proves that she is a dyed-in-the-wool Luthor.
     
  14. Kate Kane

    Kate Kane Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah. The subtext has been there since the first few episodes.

    It's just now the subtext is quickly becoming ... text.

    *It seems to me people are only seeing what they want to see because it aligned with their preconceptions of the character from the comics. I think there's a word for that...
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    They'll probably say that Brainy tweaked it to work faster. Or they could just go the Super Sentai/Power Rangers route and have the suit-up sequence's duration vary based solely on dramatic convenience. Typically on SS/PR shows, or the sister Kamen Rider series, the heroes have these long, elaborate animated transformations where the armor suits' components materialize and assemble on their bodies bit by bit; yet at other times they transform almost instantly, like if someone shot at them in their untransformed state and they come out of the explosion in full armor a second later, or if it's a particularly dramatic moment where they're charging forward in slow motion and just change in a single flash of light from sheer force of will.



    No, as I already explained, it's the other way around. Even ignoring the history of Lena in the comics, this show's Lena has proven over and over and over again that the public's and her family's expectations that she'll follow in their footsteps are wrong -- that no matter how much she flirts with the dark side or fears that she's doomed to be as bad as her family, she ultimately rises above them and does the (mostly) right thing. The only reason many viewers expect otherwise is because their preconceptions are shaped by Smallville's Tess, whom they assume was the "default" version of Lena rather than a revisionist take. But this show's Lena is not Tess Mercer, not even close. She's a character who's always been clearly, consistently driven by her need to prove she's not like her family. The "subtext" you imagine you've seen is her fear that she's as bad as they are. But her actions have proven over and over that her fear is unwarranted.

    It's just that now, after killing her brother, she believes that what she's feared has become real, and she's acting out accordingly. That doesn't mean it's who she "really" is.
     
  16. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's amazing that I have an easier time accepting flying aliens than I do the idea of that non-compete clause actually being enforceable.
     
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  17. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Despite her attempt at being a villain I noted Lena telling her AI that she did not want to kill Supergirl... unlike Lex and his superobsession, and at the end Lena's comment that she was busy trying to save the human race. I guess that's why she needs 1.3 billion dollars.

    I am glad Lena is out of the newspaper biz since it would strain credulity that she would continue working there after her feeling of betrayal.

    FAV line of the night was from Alex, "How do you guys dress so fast!" :rofl:
     
  18. Kate Kane

    Kate Kane Admiral Admiral

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    But this is the key. It's the classic addiction metaphor. And the ways in which Lena justifies herself to Kara are very much akin to the sorts of things alcoholics say to their loved ones. We see this as early as "Crossfire". She puts a plan in motion knowing it will put innocent people in danger. Kara shows extreme reservations, but Lena talks her into it. And then, when it all goes perfectly right out of sheer luck, Lena validates her actions.

    And she does this sort of thing all the time.

    And like any good addiction metaphor, the character must hit rock bottom before becoming sober - or fully embracing the dark side before vindicating herself in a triumphant redemption arc.

    This is exactly the same as Tess.

    Now she started out a bit rocky but that had a lot to do with some outside logistical problems.**

    **It's been suggested in the past that the idea of bringing Lena in was originally as a replacement for Chloe and thus to be a part of the Traveler storyline. I'm not going to open the can of worms, but suffice it to say there's some evidence that some of the cast and crew [Kreuk] had already noticed a behavior shift in Mack as early as season five. And of course, the character was "killed off" at the end of season six. But the "concerns" over Mack were downplayed and the network felt the character was too popular to risk letting go. So her resurrection was written in, and the plans for Lena were scrapped.

    And then the following season the strike happened and Millar & Gough were fired and Rosenbaum left. Peterson and Souders were left in the lurch and they came up with the Mercy/Tessmacher veil as a stopgap to be shoehorned into Lex's role.

    But then, she too was never evil. Her actions may have been a bit more obvious, but like Lena, they always came from a misguided belief she was doing good in the end. She used the same 'addicts' plea' language Lena does. She fell completely to the dark side by allying herself with Zod. And then found redemption, ultimately sacrificing herself.

    Their personalities are very different, but their core character foundation is very much the same.

    But all of this is immaterial. Because I don't really have any feelings about the character one way or the other. I'm just sick an tired of them wasting McGrath as they do.
     
  19. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, I finally managed to catch the episode premiere yesterday evening and let me tell you that I'm disappointed by the way producers/writers intend to treat Lena's reaction (to Kara's betrayal about Supergirl's identity). Indeed, for 3 years, they managed to make us believe that Lena was different from the rest of her family (Lex & Lilian) in the best sense of the word and suddenly, she would act like them with the same the same darkness and perfidy and even worse (it seems to me that they never had the intention to reveal to the world the true identities of Superman and Supergirl, what Lena had planned to do during the Pulitzer ceremony, while they knew the secret quite early, same for the existence of the DEO).
    So if I understand, our angelic Lena is going to present a double fa├žade: the one of a good friend who forgave Kara's betrayal and continue the mascarade of a said firendship while the other one, will plot behind her back to put sticks in the wheels but until where? Until her dear friend, Kara, finds herself facing such a danger that her life will only stand by a thread? And yet, Lena clearly meant to Hope, her AI interlocutor that she didn't want to kill Kara so, what does it mean?
    And all the more we know, in the end, that Lena will eventually flop and will not go all the way of her revenge OR she will help Kara (and her friend) before it is too late.

    Honestly, I would have preferred to see Lena act according to her temperament: for ex,
    telling Kara how badly her lying had hurt her and that she no longer wanted to maintain friendly relations with her, at least for a while but that she could eventually continue to help the DEO or something like that. According to the level of friendship between Lena and Kara, the latter would had been deeply saddened by this new situation, even if we know that both with the time, would eventually come to terms by building a new based relationship, maybe stronger than before... .

    About the rest:

    - Brainiac: he undertakes to repair the cape and ends up creating a new suit, more Marvel's Stark than DC, if you want my opinion. And a practical question: IF these are the glasses which causes the process in both ways, where Kare hides them when she is in Supergirl's suit?
    => must admit that at the same time, he amuses me, but he tends too often to hit the nerves. Sorry but I miss Wynn Schott.

    - James Olsen: would he have forgotten that he was the Catco magazine's CEO? A decline in magazine sales often means that editorialist choices are questionable. Instead, he plays the guy who is outraged by critics. Come on, Cat Grant would have teared dramatically at her hair in a gesture of despair and yelled at him if she has found out how he had used her magazine to convey his politics/social views instead of
    applying the adage: "change with continuity". As for his intervention as The Guardian in the party room. We do not really know what he's doing there and what he did to help....

    - Andreas Rojas: too early to say something but well, she has genuine character and individuality. She seems unfriendly but I like what I saw right now. As for her little speech, it was legitimate: she is the boss and if she wants to try something new,
    she is entitled to do it, whether it is the taste of others or not. About the 3 years of
    non-compete clause, I don't know what to say except that in France,
    this procedure exists and goes from 1 to 5 years according to the domains.

    - J'onn J'onzz: In season 1, we were told he was the only Green Martian survivor and since, we found out that his father was alive, and now his brother. And what to say about the female Green Martian, who could have been his mate...
    it's starting to do a lot, right?










    .
     
  20. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I hadn't thought much about this, but you're absolutely right. Bottom line--subscriptions are down.

    It's not making money. A new owner has a right to do whatever he or she wants, and Rojas is well within her rights to make changes to a failing business model. That absolutely includes a change in personnel, and that should actually START with Jimmy. He doesn't have to quit in a huff because he doesn't like a new direction. He should be fired because he failed at his job.

    As for the other employees, same thing. They don't own the paper. They work for it. They should do what their boss asks. She's not unreasonable. Jimmy's business model doesn't work in 2019.

    Now I do agree that a news source should actually report the news, and not ignore facts or skew things toward whatever direction they want, because if they do that, it ceases to be media, but modernizing is a good thing.

    The only issue I have is the ridiculous non-compete clause, which would not work on our Earth.