USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

[Rahul]

Sadly, this is just one other example where the only logical explanation is a real-world one (instead of an in-universe one):
The fucked up early production of the show.

Like, all the starship designs shown in season 1 would abolutely be overshadowed by J.J. Abrams version of the Enterprise - the supersized beast, that still looks shiny and pristine. And if the DIS version would have been like that, all the fawning over it would completely be justified.

The problems arose (like with everything), once they wanted to reconcile their current version (Mullrat Klingons with H.R. Giger ships, 24th century starship battle rules,...) with the "prime" canon. And suddenly the "famous" Enterprise appears as one of the smaller, more unimpressive ships in the fleet that even visually only sticks out becaus of it's weird nacelles, not in size, prestige or visual appereance. And yet, the characters being written with the "prime" mindset in the now) still fawn over it - because, hell, it's the famous ship that started the whole franchise, and will be the biggest, baddest, coolest ship 10 years later, even if it isn't now!

 

[Belz...]

1. It nevertheless informed the writing.

In fact "Starship class" is mentioned or seen once in TOS, is it not?

2. Not sure how. Discovery may be more advanced, but certainly not in public and probably not in most ways. It and other ships may be more voluminous, but the point remains that an Enterprise must remain “the best” overall.

It's not clear. You'd think with Discovery's registry number it'd be an older design. A precursor to the Constitution, perhaps.

But only because all Abramsverse ships are larger, and it wasn’t supposed to be more advanced.

Personally I don't mind that some older ships are bigger. Making things smaller is often a sign of technological advancement. Look at computers.

2. "It is the largest and most modern type vessel in the Starfleet Service" is the only relevant statement confirming some kind of specialty that other ships do not have. Yet there are several Starfleet vessels that are both larger and more advanced than the Constitution class in DSC, ten years before TOS. And they're all public knowledge.

Sorry but where did you get the idea that they were more advanced?

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Enterprise was never meant to be the most famous and amazing ship in the fleet in TOS, it was just one of 12 starships. That's the work of the various sequels and then the prequels and reboots building and building the legacy. Of Next Gen and ST'09 making the Enterprise the flagship of the fleet, of ENT making the Enterprise name the legacy of the first ever starship.

What can the Enterprise do that Discovery or any other Trek ship can't? Literally nothing. But they have more colourful uniforms.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

The Enterprise was never meant to be the most famous and amazing ship in the fleet in TOS, it was just one of 12 starships. That's the work of the various sequels and then the prequels and reboots building and building the legacy. Of Next Gen and ST'09 making the Enterprise the flagship of the fleet, of ENT making the Enterprise name the legacy of the first ever starship.

What can the Enterprise do that Discovery or any other Trek ship can't? Literally nothing. But they have more colourful uniforms.

The discussion here is about the prestige of the Constitution class, and the TOS writers’ guide makes it clear that it was supposed to be top-of-the line even then (though maybe not the Enterprise specifically).

 

[F. King Daniel]

The discussion here is about the prestige of the Constitution class, and the TOS writers’ guide makes it clear that it was supposed to be top-of-the line even then (though maybe not the Enterprise specifically).

Yeah, one of the 12 but not the flagship of Stafleet or a living legend as the Enterprise appears to already be in Discovery.

Then again, Nharn was impressed by the Discovery in "Brother" saying she can tell where Starlfeet spends it's pennies (or words to that effect). And then Discovery is classified and buried at the end of the season so even if she was more advanced she wouldn't be mentioned.

 

[Tuskin38]

Sadly, this is just one other example where the only logical explanation is a real-world one (instead of an in-universe one):
The fucked up early production of the show.

Like, all the starship designs shown in season 1 would abolutely be overshadowed by J.J. Abrams version of the Enterprise - the supersized beast, that still looks shiny and pristine. And if the DIS version would have been like that, all the fawning over it would completely be justified.

The problems arose (like with everything), once they wanted to reconcile their current version (Mullrat Klingons with H.R. Giger ships, 24th century starship battle rules,...) with the "prime" canon. And suddenly the "famous" Enterprise appears as one of the smaller, more unimpressive ships in the fleet that even visually only sticks out becaus of it's weird nacelles, not in size, prestige or visual appereance. And yet, the characters being written with the "prime" mindset in the now) still fawn over it - because, hell, it's the famous ship that started the whole franchise, and will be the biggest, baddest, coolest ship 10 years later, even if it isn't now!

Size and looks aren’t everything.
Just because it looks less impressive, doesn’t mean it is. It’s what’s on the inside, the capabilities, the technology. Look at Voyager for example.

Personally I think it looks more impressive than the Discovery.

The Discovery looks like a big bulky truck with only a single purpose. While the Enterprise is designed for a variety of things.

 

[BillJ]

It's not clear. You'd think with Discovery's registry number it'd be an older design. A precursor to the Constitution, perhaps.

Possibly the Crossfield-class predates the Connie, with the Discovery and Glenn being refitted for Spore Drive research.

 

[BillJ]

Another thought... 2245 isn't actually canon, IIRC. So the Constitution class could be almost brand new in the time of Discovery.

 

[cooleddie74]

Although she's at least 12 years old in DSC because Captain Pike is listed as having served under Captain Robert April aboard the Enterprise from 2245-50.

 

[Tuskin38]

Another thought... 2245 isn't actually canon

It appears on a screen in DSC, and Pike's bio mentions serving under Robert April on the Enterprise before he took command in 2250.

 

[fireproof78]

Size and looks aren’t everything.
Just because it looks less impressive, doesn’t mean it is. It’s what’s on the inside, the capabilities, the technology. Look at Voyager for example.

Personally I think it looks more impressive than the Discovery.

The Discovery looks like a big bulky truck with only a single purpose. While the Enterprise is designed for a variety of things.

Lots of ships look better than Discovery.

Regardless, the Enterprise has been treated as a premier posting before DSC. If no one explained it that's as much on TOS and the films as DSC.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Another thought... 2245 isn't actually canon, IIRC. So the Constitution class could be almost brand new in the time of Discovery.

Pretty sure it's visible behind Pike in "Brother" when he's introducing himself to the bridge crew.

 

[Tuskin38]

Pretty sure it's visible behind Pike in "Brother" when he's introducing himself to the bridge crew.

There's no years given for when or how long he served under April, but his bio does say he took command of the Enterprise in 2250, so it would have been before that year.

The status screen Stamets is looking at says 2245, but that's also the screen that just copy and pasted info from the TOS Tech Manual.

Memory-Alpha has had 2245 for years, calculated from dialogue/info from TOS and TAS.

 

[Tomalak]

Possibly the Crossfield-class predates the Connie, with the Discovery and Glenn being refitted for Spore Drive research.

I think this is right. Disco is clearly stated to be a science ship, or at the very least an experimental one. I think she's like the Pegasus in TNG - an older ship refitted and used as a testbed for a new technology.

Of course she can still carry out all types of missions, because that's what all Starfleet ships do. Even the Defiant conducted scientific research, and Oberth-class ships were seen fighting the Borg at Wolf 359 and Sector 001!

The Connie is still the pride of the fleet. I'm pretty sure Admiral Cornwell says they were being kept back as a weapon of last resort because they were the best.

 

[BillJ]

Pretty sure it's visible behind Pike in "Brother" when he's introducing himself to the bridge crew.

Remember, visuals aren't canon.

 

[Ronald Held]

Visuals are Canon if you can read them onscreen.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Visuals are Canon if you can read them onscreen.

And with HD, that's much more likely than 1960's TV.

 

[pst]

concept art from the season 2 blu ray trailer (via trekcore):

 

[Tuskin38]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. They have a VR station for the directors/writers for figuring out scenes and shots.

 

[cooleddie74]

concept art from the season 2 blu ray trailer (via trekcore):

I wish the final set had been that brightly lit!