While 1959 started with 48 starts and ended with 50, the flag didn't go from 48 to 50. There was a short period of a few months when the flag had 49 stars. That's rare, but not as rare as the 47-star flag which flown for less than a month. It's actually pretty interesting. I researched that for my previous post and fell into one of these google rabbit holes. Yes, I did research for a one-off TBBS post. I'm ready for my @Locutus of Bored merit badge, now.
Or like GB after it lost its superpower status after WW2 begged to join the new big guys.. the EEC. If there are no superpowers after the Star Trek WW3 the humans who remember the old days, (people like us) will all be dead, a new generation would have a different way of thinking in the USA and elsewhere. Anyway has Star Trek have stated Earth's nation states no longer exist?
You have to admit the whole story doesn't hold much to scrutiny. The Bozeman would have first to jump 90 years ahead of time and then be caught in a loop of the exact same duration as the one Enterprise was in... How the hell does that work!!! Plus the Bozeman didn't explode as she hit the Enterprise... So why would it be caught in the exact same loop as the other one? That doesn't make sense. No matter how you look at it.
By them too reliving the same half day The only issue with it not exploding is in how the loop manifests itself for them. It could be as simple as a reset. Nobody on Enterprise has any concrete recollection of the ship exploding, moments afterward. Nobody on the Bozeman would likely have any, moments after the near miss that resulted in the reset. I'm not seeing the issue with it
Plus it also means that the crew of the Bozeman were a bunch of idiots because there was not one person left on Enterprise who didn't have a very strong feeling of Deja Vu to the point of guessing what was going to happen (e. g. what cards each person would get)... So what was wrong with the people on the Bozeman, not enough protein?
Nothing. Deja vu is useless without a way to act on it. The Bozeman had the bad luck of not having their own Data aboard.
Even without Data, pretty much everyone was conscient that they were caught in a time loop. The captain of the Bozeman was completely clueless.
As far as we can tell, the older ship was in the loop for the same number of times, but only a fraction of the time. For her, each loop was just minutes long (the minutes in the 24th century - there would have been no looping in the 23rd). By all rights, getting the same sort of deja vu that Crusher got ought to have been flat out impossible. Timo Saloniemi
The crew wasn't all conscious of that. We undoubtedly did not see every loop, and there were loops where they didn't even get to the point where they thought there was something amiss (other than instances of deju vu and such). Also, there wasn't enough interaction with the captain of the Bozeman to really know what he thought.
The crew of the Enterprise knew that they were in a time-loop and that there was a time difference between real-time and what they were experiencing. The captain of the Bozeman did not.
We can agree to disagree on how cognizant the Enterprise crew was about the time loop on each separate loop, but you originally said the Bozeman's captain and crew were idiots because they didn't realize something was wrong either. There was not enough dialogue with the captain to come to that conclusion.
In this universe, humans are flying around in FLT space ships 40 years from today. What part, again, of this episode doesn't hold up?
Correct. You don't open your first Cap'n-to-Cap'n communication with, "You know, some of our crew have felt kinda funny recently in an unspecific way. Oh, btw, a/s/l?"
As others have stated, there's no guarantee that both ships had the same passage of time going on as each other, but even foregoing that, who's to say that some on the Bozeman hadn't had the deja vu? It's certainly not something they'd open with in an initial communication with an unfamiliar ship, & it's also possible they'd have been in no position to have done anything about it, or even question it being connected to some anomaly anyhow? Ultimately, it wasn't the deja vu that enlightened the D crew about the phenomenon. It was Crusher's voice echo recording, & Geordi's blurry after-images. Both of which might never have been available to the Bozeman crew, one, because they don't have a VISOR, & two, because maybe they had no one quartered in a room aptly positioned to hear the echoes, the way Crusher was. 1 person on a ship of a thousand heard it, & thought to record & examine it with an android's hearing. As much as that episode depends on Data being able to send a message to himself, it also worked out through the sheer luck of Beverly being in the right spot at the right time. They survived that one in large part on luck, & the Bozeman maybe didn't get any of that luck
IMHO the story holds together very well at every possible level, leaving open just enough questions to allow for interpretations that satisfy everybody. Apparently not, though. Anyway... 1) The E-D is caught in a loop about a day long. It does not follow that the Bozeman would be caught in a loop of that length. The Bozeman is only looping in the 24th century, where she is within the influence of the (spatially quite limited) anomaly that resets the clock whenever the E-D blows up. She only arrives to that location and time once. 2) We don't know exactly how many loops the E-D went through, but we know she spent only 17.4 days in total in those loops, as counted by "outside observers" (a timekeeping net outside the influence of the Typhon Expanse anomaly - compare to #1 for why the Bozeman would not be looping in the 23rd century). So the odds for noticing the deja vu phenomena aren't incredibly low or anything - you are cued in after less than a dozen loops. That is, assuming the loops are a day long and allow you to fumble with glasses of water and whatnot. They weren't that long for the Bozeman. Other odds and ends: 3) The dozen or so loops would appear to result in a dozen or so timelines, most of which feature debris from the lost E-D plus a rather shaken Bozeman. A fun thought, that. But shouldn't there be a dozen shaken Bozemen now? Well, no, unless the Bozeman managed to fly outside the spatial reach of the looping phenomenon (to the "safe zone" where the timebase clocks keep happily ticking) while the E-D was busy exploding. And we have no reason to think she would have. The loop clears out the debris and the leftover starship. 4) The decision not to alter course makes good sense in this episode, unlike in "Time Squared". In that earlier episode, the course of the ship was known in advance: she was traveling from A to B. If this was to lead to a disaster in the future, it would be logical to take a detour to C. However, in the episode at hand, the heroes were idly exploring, which involves taking random turns and poking at assorted things. Nothing about this would be known in advance, so the heroes wouldn't have a yardstick of what not to do, and would realize that the loop they are caught in is a robust one, since it caught them during random unpredictable action and then did this again several times before the heroes knew to be wary of their random unpredictable actions. 5) The collision is a weird one. Is the tractor beam on or not? Why does a collision of two nacelles blow up one ship but not the other? How could the shuttlebay air suffice in moving the E-D, and how would that movement (forward, perhaps with a pitch down meaning the nacelles come up) protect her from the impact we see? All this is details, though - and the loop was a robust one, perhaps exactly because the collision was an inevitable one somehow. Say, the approaching of the E-D would always trigger the century-long time jump gateway exactly at the right spot relative to the E-D to create the collision ("dead ahead" ought to suffice and is natural enough). We don't have any reason to think that the time jump of the Bozeman would happen without the E-D being there to trigger it, after all. Timo Saloniemi
How do we know the Bozeman didn't also blow up? Just because the camera follows the hero ship doesn't mean nothing happens to the other ship after the collision.
Very true, that. I'd like to think that not all starships have "glass nacelles" - the Abrams movie one seemed to do fine even when losing some hull plating around that bit, say. But supposedly both ships would be in more or less the same predicament, their key systems down but their nacelle plasma still active and ready to do harm. In any case, the loop would clear out the old starship whether she survived or not. It clears out the debris of the E-D, after all, and the debris isn't qualitatively different from the Bozeman. That is, we probably get a dozen separate timelines filled with E-D debris and Bozemen, intact or blown up, but none of those affects the most recent loop in any fashion. And each such timeline ought to spit out its end results into the "regular" timeline where the timebase beacons keep ticking, at intervals of about a day. So if the Bozeman did survive the explosion even once, she didn't survive the subsequent looping, or else there'd be that extra Bozeman around. Timo Saloniemi